France Rejects Genocide Bill

[TurQ]

France has rejected the Genocide bill with the majority vote in the commission.
The matter will be discussed in the parliment on May 18th

French intellectuals, historians opposed the bill.

Turkish intellectuals who have participated the last fall's Armenian conference in Istanbul also opposed the bill, among those
BErktay, Fatma Muge, Murat Belge and Elif Shafak.

[TurQ]

Ara Sarafian, the Armenian Historian from Gomidas Institute of UK also opposed the French genocide bill. He accused France to be inconsistent and guilty of genocides of Algeria and Ruwanda.

France has rejected the Genocide bill with the majority vote in the commission.
The matter will be discussed in the parliment on May 18th

French intellectuals, historians opposed the bill.

Turkish intellectuals who have participated the last fall's Armenian conference in Istanbul also opposed the bill, among those
BErktay, Fatma Muge, Murat Belge and Elif Shafak.

[Gavur]

News source?

[Gavur]

Genocide Bill at French Constitutional Commission
By Ali Ihsan Aydin, Paris
Published: Wednesday, May 10, 2006
zaman.com


The controversial bid to penalize those who deny the so-called genocide in France will be discussed at the French National Parliament's Constitutional Commission today.

The motion, expected to be discussed at the National Parliament on May 18, needs to be approved by the Senate as well to become a law. If the motion passes, those denying the existence of the so-called genocide may be fined 45,000 euros and sentenced to one-year in prison. The French Foreign Ministry in a statement yesterday said "they are following the developments carefully" concerning Turkey's reaction. The bill prepared by the main opposition Socialist Party (SP) needs to pass the commission in order to reach the parliament. Last month, the SP decided to bring the bill to the parliament by using its "right to determine agenda" given to French parties in proportion to the number of deputies. Five other bills prepared by parliamentarians from the ruling Union for a Popular Movement (UMP) and the SP in this frame were unable to be included on the parliamentary agenda since 2001. The right to determine the agenda, which normally belongs to the government, will be invoked by the SP on May 18.

A Turkish split in the SP


Jean Marc Ayrault, the Socialists’ house leader, that party that prepared the bill, does not hide his concern about the draft.

Ayrault, warning that the bill will be a "source of chaos and difficulty," stresses the offer came to the agenda as "a result of big pressure from the party."

The left-leaning newspaper Liberation wrote that the bill deepened the crisis between France and Turkey.

Liberation estimates Ankara harshly reacted to the proposed law when it recalled Ambassador to France Osman Koruturk "to discuss the issue," and "is getting harsher against France."

The article cites the boycotting of French goods and excluding of French companies from public tenders came to the agenda in Turkey, and those who criticize the bill, mostly Turkish intellectuals such as Baskin Oran, are struggling against official history. Marc Semo, the newspaper's expert on Turkey who wrote the article, maintains that although the majority of historians accept it, Ankara still rejects the so-called genocide. In the event the bill passes, Turkish-French relationships, which almost stopped in 2001 due to the Armenian issue, are again expected to undergo a second crisis.

[Gavur]

Turkey warns of diplomatic damage over Armenian issue

By Andrew Borowiec
The Washington Times
Published May 11, 2006


NICOSIA, Cyprus -- Turkey this week summoned its ambassadors to France and Canada for consultation in an escalating row over the World War I massacres of more than 1 million Armenians.

The government in Ankara has warned of "irreparable damage" to its relations with France if the National Assembly approved law to make any denial of the massacre a criminal offense.


In Canada, Prime Minister Stephen Harper recently referred to the deaths of Turkish Armenians as genocide, drawing Turkish ire.

In an unusual move, the Turkish Foreign Ministry has suggested that the French government should prevent the adoption of the denial bill by the lower house of parliament.

"Accepting this draft law would cause irreparable damage to Turkish-French relations. It should not be permitted," the ministry said.

Unlike Germany, which has acknowledged the Holocaust of the Nazi era and compensated some of the survivors, Turkey dismisses the massive documentation of the Armenian massacres by the Ottomans.

The European Parliament has already approved a nonbinding resolution requiring Turkey to recognize the death of Armenians as genocide before it is admitted to the European Union.

The draft bill before the French National Assembly was strongly influenced by the presence in France of some 400,000 Armenians, the largest Armenian diaspora in Europe. Many are active in French political life.

Turkish authorities continue to oppose any public discussion of the Armenian problem. Several journalists have been charged with violating the code on "insulting Turkishness" for writing about the 90-year-old massacres.

However, under strong EU pressure, similar charges were dropped against Orhan Pamuk, an internationally known Turkish novelist who had called on Turkey to admit its guilt.

According to the prevailing Turkish version, Armenians living in Turkey had to be resettled in the desert areas of the Ottoman Empire because they were "the fifth column" on behalf of Russia and the Western Allies.

Turkey fought on the side of Germany and Austria in World War I.

According to the version of the London-based Minority Rights Group, in the spring of 1915, less than a year after the start of the war, "Turkish Armenians in the Ottoman army were disarmed and herded into labor battalions where they were starved, beaten or machine-gunned.

"A 'resettlement campaign' followed in which most Armenian men were summarily executed while women and children were "forced to walk southward in huge convoys to the burning desert of northern Syria. Few survived the privations of these terrible death marches."

The Minority Rights Group concluded that before 1914 over 2 million Armenians lived under the Ottomans, but the figure has hardly exceeded 100,000 since World War I.

"Thus the number of Armenian dead may safely be put at around 1,500,000. Another half a million became homeless refugees whose descendants, with their tragic memories, can be found today in a score of countries."

[imported_RUDO]

Armenian Historian Advises France to Start First with Algeria and Rwanda

Armenian Historian Advises France to Start First with Algeria and Rwanda
By Selcuk Gultasli, Brussels
Published: Thursday, May 11, 2006
zaman.com


Armenian-origin British historian Ara Sarafian, criticising the French draft law that will punish the deniers of the Armenian “genocide,” said France should first start with its role in Algeria and Rwanda. Sarafian, the Director of the Gomidas Institute in London, the publisher of many western primary sources on the Armenian “Genocide”, as well as the editor of the critical edition of the 1916 British Parliamentary Blue Book, is vehemently against the French draft. Despite the fact that he subscribes to the Armenian “Genocide” thesis; Sarafian thinks the draft law may halt the blossoming debate in Turkey on what happened in 1915.

Sarafian, who attended the recent Istanbul University Symposium on the future of Turkish Armenian relations despite the stern warnings of the Armenian Diaspora, had worked in the Turkish archives only to be expelled. He has now once again received permission “without any preconditions” to study the Turkish archives.

The following is the full text of his remarks in response to our questions about the proposed draft law:

The Armenian issue has become a political issue between two contending camps, Turkish nationalists (and successive Turkish governments) on the one hand, and Armenian nationalists on the other. Because Turkish governments have until recently denied that there was an Armenian issue to be addressed, or explained that the issue was the product of "Armenian terrorism" (1970s and 80s), or unfortunate events of mutual communal carnage, they also set the ground rules of how this issue would be addressed i.e. in terms of power politics. They thus nurtured and empowered the radical Armenian nationalist camps we see today.

Armenian nationalists are now playing the game by the same rules, and they have recently found themselves in a powerful position because of Turkey's accession talks for EU membership. They have aligned the Armenian issue in two somewhat contradictory camps, where the Armenian issue is used as a yardstick to measure Turkey's ability to come to terms with its past, and in doing so, its ability to adopt a new political trajectory that reflects core values adopted by the European Union; and at the same time, the Armenian issue is used to give substance to racists, xenophobes and anti-Islamicists who do not want Turkey to enter the European Union.

The prospective French law is part of an unfortunate power dynamic, and whether it passes or not, the final outcome will be the result of power politics. It is ironic that the French legislature, with its own past in Algeria and Rwanda, is willing to go down this path.

Perhaps the real tragedy is that the current Turkish government has taken important steps to resolve the Armenian issue. After all, it has "uncensored" the Armenian debate in Turkey by allowing it to be discussed openly, letting Turkish nationalist institutions, such as the Turkish Historical Society, to fend for themselves in the open arena. It is true that the debate is unequal. There are still draconian laws that are invoked against dissidents, and most TV stations still espouse the anti-Armenian line, but there is still a significant shift towards open debate. Not all TV stations programmes espouse the state perspective, many newspapers and publications discuss the Armenian issue more openly, and many court cases against dissenters are quashed within Turkish legal system.

There are already many Turks and Kurds who have entered this debate in a critical manner, and they have critical audiences who want to know the truth. All of this is to Turkey's credit and there is every prospect that the Armenian issue will be resolved in a peaceful manner in the near future.

It is unfortunate that, if the prospective French law is passed, it could lead to a souring of relations between Turkey and the EU, as well as a right-wing backlash within Turkey and its own democratization process. Such a scenario will suit the interest of the two nationalist camps, which will remain part of the problem and not the solution.

I hope, irrespective of what happens in Paris in the next few weeks, we do not lose the perspective of what is important. Today we have the opportunity of resolving the Armenian issue in a peaceful and meaningful fashion, based on the truth, and the dignity of the descendants of the people concerned. Europeans should help and judge Turkey and Armenians on how they progress down this road. The current proposed legislation in Paris is a detraction at best, and a hindrance at worse.

[Gavur]

I disagree this law wont prevent Turkey from joining, It only puts some teeth to the EU parlimantary desicion that Turkey must take responsibility for the past and this French law will prevent the issue to be swept under a Turkish kilim.

[Gavur]

Maybe they should boycott Russia too ,they excepted it ! Of course they like the gas they get from them.How many countrys can they pick a economic fight and win ?Zilch,zero Turkey has more to lose by picking these fights and they always give up something whether they lose or win ,

[imported_Ottoman]

Armenian Historian Advises France to Start First with Algeria and Rwanda
By Selcuk Gultasli, Brussels
Published: Thursday, May 11, 2006
zaman.com


Armenian-origin British historian Ara Sarafian, criticising the French draft law that will punish the deniers of the Armenian “genocide,” said France should first start with its role in Algeria and Rwanda. Sarafian, the Director of the Gomidas Institute in London, the publisher of many western primary sources on the Armenian “Genocide”, as well as the editor of the critical edition of the 1916 British Parliamentary Blue Book, is vehemently against the French draft. Despite the fact that he subscribes to the Armenian “Genocide” thesis; Sarafian thinks the draft law may halt the blossoming debate in Turkey on what happened in 1915.

Sarafian, who attended the recent Istanbul University Symposium on the future of Turkish Armenian relations despite the stern warnings of the Armenian Diaspora, had worked in the Turkish archives only to be expelled. He has now once again received permission “without any preconditions” to study the Turkish archives.

The following is the full text of his remarks in response to our questions about the proposed draft law:

The Armenian issue has become a political issue between two contending camps, Turkish nationalists (and successive Turkish governments) on the one hand, and Armenian nationalists on the other. Because Turkish governments have until recently denied that there was an Armenian issue to be addressed, or explained that the issue was the product of "Armenian terrorism" (1970s and 80s), or unfortunate events of mutual communal carnage, they also set the ground rules of how this issue would be addressed i.e. in terms of power politics. They thus nurtured and empowered the radical Armenian nationalist camps we see today.

Armenian nationalists are now playing the game by the same rules, and they have recently found themselves in a powerful position because of Turkey's accession talks for EU membership. They have aligned the Armenian issue in two somewhat contradictory camps, where the Armenian issue is used as a yardstick to measure Turkey's ability to come to terms with its past, and in doing so, its ability to adopt a new political trajectory that reflects core values adopted by the European Union; and at the same time, the Armenian issue is used to give substance to racists, xenophobes and anti-Islamicists who do not want Turkey to enter the European Union.

The prospective French law is part of an unfortunate power dynamic, and whether it passes or not, the final outcome will be the result of power politics. It is ironic that the French legislature, with its own past in Algeria and Rwanda, is willing to go down this path.

Perhaps the real tragedy is that the current Turkish government has taken important steps to resolve the Armenian issue. After all, it has "uncensored" the Armenian debate in Turkey by allowing it to be discussed openly, letting Turkish nationalist institutions, such as the Turkish Historical Society, to fend for themselves in the open arena. It is true that the debate is unequal. There are still draconian laws that are invoked against dissidents, and most TV stations still espouse the anti-Armenian line, but there is still a significant shift towards open debate. Not all TV stations programmes espouse the state perspective, many newspapers and publications discuss the Armenian issue more openly, and many court cases against dissenters are quashed within Turkish legal system.

There are already many Turks and Kurds who have entered this debate in a critical manner, and they have critical audiences who want to know the truth. All of this is to Turkey's credit and there is every prospect that the Armenian issue will be resolved in a peaceful manner in the near future.

It is unfortunate that, if the prospective French law is passed, it could lead to a souring of relations between Turkey and the EU, as well as a right-wing backlash within Turkey and its own democratization process. Such a scenario will suit the interest of the two nationalist camps, which will remain part of the problem and not the solution.

I hope, irrespective of what happens in Paris in the next few weeks, we do not lose the perspective of what is important. Today we have the opportunity of resolving the Armenian issue in a peaceful and meaningful fashion, based on the truth, and the dignity of the descendants of the people concerned. Europeans should help and judge Turkey and Armenians on how they progress down this road. The current proposed legislation in Paris is a detraction at best, and a hindrance at worse.

I put my sign on Sarafian's statement.
Slowly but surely.
You can not persuade people by force or hate.
But with dialogue everthing can be solved in a natural way.
EU says something,US says another.I do not care them.
It is important what Armenians and Turkish People think and do in future.
We all want a solution based on truth.Don't we?

Right in the power struggle,
We're left with no arms
-SOAD

[Gavur]

I appreciate sarafians position here a ypung energatic scholar who beat Turkey almost singelhandedly in England couragesley went to the Turk organized denial conference stood toe to toe with mouthfoaming racist holding the bluebook like a bible for protection.you have to respect that and this also shows you how independent thinking is one of our qualitys and dispells the rumor its all a cordinated attack on Turkey by the diaspora.
After saying all that I still believe we must have a dual approach to this matter of recognition/compensation (I came to realize we wont get recognition if we wont ask for compensation)carrot and the stick per say.
Of course I'm in danger of being a hypocrite in some peoples eyes just because I understand everybodys position (Except the Ultranationilist wannabe's)Understanding is a key asset for all sides in this issue.
You dont need historians to see the truth in all the piled up documentation.when a 3rd party looks at the evidences and if France exepted that there was A.G. then its only natural for them to strenghten that law and put some teeth into it.
In Turkey someone can go to jail for denying the flag denying the name Turk which came from someones wild imagination and talking about the A.G. still not free to do!O.K. they let one true conference occur for appareance sake amd showed censored version of Ararat with heavy Ant-Armenian propaganda wrapped around it this are isolated cases and not the norm.They still classifie the issue X-rated.
When freedom of speach is achiaved in Turkey re-this issue then they have a right to talk.And you all know that this bill was propelled in response to the greypups denying march in France short time ago ,so Thank you Turks for bringing out the Armenian in us.