France Rejects Genocide Bill

[Gavur]

Bill Reproaching Armenian Genocide Denial As Criminal Felony Submitted

BILL REPROACHING ARMENIAN GENOCIDE DENIAL AS CRIMINAL FELONY SUBMITTED TO THE BELGIAN PARLIAMENT

ArmRadio.am
12.05.2006 12:35

Another resolution reproaching Armenian Genocide denial as criminal
felony was submitted to the Belgian Parliament.

Referring to the Turkish "Hurriet," Istanbul based "Marmara" daily
informs that the bill has been worked out by the powerful "Movement
of Reforms" coalition party. Members of the part Fransua de Vivie
and Christine Dofrey suggest to consider Genocide denial a criminal
felony and offer that the Law on Holocaust applies also the 1915
Genocide carried out against Armenians by Young Turks.

The draft had been developed still two years ago. It was, however
recalled because of strong resistance.

[imported_DHolyGhost]

I appreciate sarafians position here a ypung energatic scholar who beat Turkey almost singelhandedly in England couragesley went to the Turk organized denial conference stood toe to toe with mouthfoaming racist holding the bluebook like a bible for protection.you have to respect that and this also shows you how independent thinking is one of our qualitys and dispells the rumor its all a cordinated attack on Turkey by the diaspora.
After saying all that I still believe we must have a dual approach to this matter of recognition/compensation (I came to realize we wont get recognition if we wont ask for compensation)carrot and the stick per say.
Of course I'm in danger of being a hypocrite in some peoples eyes just because I understand everybodys position (Except the Ultranationilist wannabe's)Understanding is a key asset for all sides in this issue.
You dont need historians to see the truth in all the piled up documentation.when a 3rd party looks at the evidences and if France exepted that there was A.G. then its only natural for them to strenghten that law and put some teeth into it.
In Turkey someone can go to jail for denying the flag denying the name Turk which came from someones wild imagination and talking about the A.G. still not free to do!O.K. they let one true conference occur for appareance sake amd showed censored version of Ararat with heavy Ant-Armenian propaganda wrapped around it this are isolated cases and not the norm.They still classifie the issue X-rated.
When freedom of speach is achiaved in Turkey re-this issue then they have a right to talk.And you all know that this bill was propelled in response to the greypups denying march in France short time ago ,so Thank you Turks for bringing out the Armenian in us.

I don’t post often in forums but I go around to so many and read, just to see what goes around, whenever I cannot hold myself that’s when I sign in or log in to say something.
I don’t get you Gavur, what are you? It seems to me that you are here just to oppose and debate everyone but Jews, honestly speaking I couldn’t figure you out yet, when a Turk debates the Armenian issue you take the Armenian side, when an Armenian debates a Turk you start playing neutral, when an Armenian debates a Jew all of sudden everyone in this forum gangs up including Turks/Kurds against this person and start calling him Nazi or Anti-Semite, what the hell is going on here? You people use the “Nazi and the Anti-Semite” words more often then Jews. I tell you something smells fishy around here.
In my opinion everyone should take a stand and stand firm on his feet, in life one should make up it’s mind and decide who/what he is, you cannot be hot and cold, day and night, black or white at the same time. Even Jesus Christi said something about this.
I have a big respect to anyone that stands for what they believe in, and hate paranoid people that don’t know where they stand and attack everyone try to play neutral in a hypocritical way.

Another hypocrite is Bell-the-cat, just choose a side man!

[imported_RUDO]

Copter tender rests on Armenian card

Copter tender rests on Armenian card

Evren Deger - The New Anatolian / Ankara



Turkey's drawn-out decision to purchase combat helicopters will be shaped by the play of the Armenian card in the French Parliament, which recently proposed a bill threatening prison terms for people who question the controversial Armenian genocide claims.

The fate of the estimated $2 billion Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopter (ATAK) tender, which began last year and is expected to be finalized by June, will be affected by the vote set to take place in the French Parliament on Thursday.

Four companies have submitted proposals for the tender that seeks 91 helicopters (30 firm, 20 additional and 41 optional).

The firms that submitted their request for proposal documents to the Defense Industry Undersecretariat were Italian Agusta, French Eurocopter, Russian Rosoboronexport and South African Denel Aviation.

The models proposed are Eurocopter's Tiger, Agusta's A129 Mangusta, Rosoboronexport's MI-28 Havoc and Denel Aviation's CSH-2 Rooivalk. From among these four models, interest has only been shown in the French and South African options.

According to defense industry observers, the final decision, which will be made in June, will be shaped by the French Parliament's decision on the Armenian bill.

Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer sent a message to his French counterpart Jacques Chirac this week warning passage of the bill could have serious consequences.

Should the French Parliament pass the bill in question, the likely winner of the tender will be South Africa's Denel Aviation. The same defense circles said that the South African model has a phenomenal success rate after passing many technical tests.

ARABASLIK: History of ATAK tender

It has been 10 years since the ATAK project was initiated in 1996. In the first tender opened that year, there were no results to come out of contract meetings to discuss U.S. firm Bell Textron's King Kobra model and Russian firm Kamov's Erdogan model. The Defense Industry Executive Committee canceled the tender in May 2004 and it has since entered another phase.

Two companies from both the U.S. and Europe, as well as one company each from Russia and South Africa, were invited to take part in the tender. The American firms, however, withdrew last summer over a clause in the tender granting the approval of the administrative specifications from the beginning of the tender.

Following the withdrawal and delays in proposals from other firms, especially the South African offer, the deadline for submissions was extended from last June last year to Sept. 13.

The deadline was later again pushed back to Nov. 8 in order to give other companies, including those in the current four, the opportunity to to make an offer.

[imported_RUDO]

Chirac pledges 'sensitivity' to Turkish concerns on Armenian bill

Chirac pledges 'sensitivity' to Turkish concerns on Armenian bill

The New Anatolian / Ankara



French President Jacques Chirac on Thursday reportedly told Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that France will show sensitivity to Turkish concerns over a bill threatening prison terms and fines to people who question the Armenian genocide claims.

Chirac made the remarks during a meeting with Erdogan on the sidelines of a dinner hosted by Austrian Prime Minister Wolfgang Schuessel in honor of the participants of the European Union-Latin American summit held in Vienna.

Although Chirac assured Erdogan that France will take into consideration Turkish concerns during the debate of the Armenian bill in the French Parliament set for next week, French socialists Thursday expressed their insistence on bringing the bill to the Parliament's floor despite Parliament's Law Commission rejecting the controversial bill.

During Wednesday's debates at the Law Commission, ruling Union for Popular Movement (UMP) deputies sharply criticized the bill, drawn up by a group of socialist deputies. Alain Marsaud and Michel Piron from the UMP are opposed to the bill, and Piron stressed that trying to write history with laws would result in a discredited "official history." After the debates, the commission made no changes to the bill and rejected it by a majority.

However, under the French Parliament's bylaws, the bill is still going to be debated by the General Assembly next Thursday. The majority of ruling UMP deputies are opposed to the bill, but if they don't participate in next week's meeting, it's expected to be approved by the National Assembly. The UMP has announced that there will be no group decision on the issue.

Gul warns France on dangers of bill

Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul warned France on Friday about danger of possible approval of the Armenian bill, saying, "Sometimes issues of domestic politics may hurt the greater interests of the country."

"I think a country like France will give priority to its interests," Gul said.

Telling of the initiatives made by Turkish officials to block approval of Armenian bill by the French Parliament, Gul said that the aim of these initiatives is to warn France on time about the dangers of such a move.

Underlining that recalling Turkish ambassadors from Ottawa and Paris for consultations doesn't aim at provoking the public, Gul said, "This is not an issue of governments, but one of society. Both non-governmental organization (NGOs) and businessmen warned their French counterparts that approval of such a bill would harm relations."

Erdogan seeks German support for EU bid

Erdogan met on Friday with his German counterpart Angela Merkel on the sidelines of the summit where he reportedly sought German support to Turkish bid to join the EU.

Speaking to reporters after the meeting, Erdogan told reporters that they also discussed the details and agenda of his upcoming visit to Germany. "I told Merkel what Turkey can do in the EU accession process and stated Turkish expectations from Germany in the process," Erdogan added.

Turkey's chief EU negotiator and State Minister Ali Babacan and Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Ali Sahin also joined Erdogan during talks with Merkel.

Erdogan during his bilateral talks with United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan discussed the Middle East peace process, the latest developments in Iraq and possible Turkish contribution to the democratization of the region.

The Turkish prime minister participated in the opening session of the summit and posed in a group photo with his European and Latin American counterparts on Friday before proceeding to Bali, Indonesia to participate in the Developing-8 Summit.

Growing feud over energy, trade dominates summit

The Associated Press / Vienna

A growing feud over energy and trade policy dominated EU-Latin America Summit between 58 European and Latin American leaders as they started their talks Friday.

A new warning by Bolivia's leftist President Evo Morales on Thursday that foreign companies including Brazil's Petrobas may not be compensated, following the forced nationalization of their Bolivian operations, caused new concern among EU officials as well as Brazil.

The remarks caused growing concern and frustrations among the summit host Austria and participants who hope to build on trade ties already worth billions of euros in two-way trade at Friday's gathering. The EU is Latin America's second largest trading partner after the U.S.

In a draft declaration to be adopted at the summit, the leaders are to commit to better coordinating issues like UN reform, terrorism, drugs, and fighting poverty. They were also to pledge closer cooperation on energy policy, which has become a thorny issue at the gathering.

Morales' new hard line stole the show on the first day of EU-Latin America talks Thursday in the Austrian capital and came just hours after Bolivia and Brazil agreed to study forms of compensation.

Morales said Bolivia's nationalization of its energy sector was justified and necessary to fight poverty, adding that nationalization also would extend to land, minerals and forestry resources.

Austrian Foreign Minister Ursula Plassnik, whose country holds the EU presidency, said EU leaders would ask Morales for clarification on how European investments would be affected by Bolivia's nationalization of its gas and energy sectors. "We need legal security and confidence because these are the core topics for investors," Plassnik said.

Leaders also will launch free-trade talks with the Central American countries - Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama and Nicaragua.

[Gavur]

I don’t post often in forums but I go around to so many and read, just to see what goes around, whenever I cannot hold myself that’s when I sign in or log in to say something.
I don’t get you Gavur, what are you? It seems to me that you are here just to oppose and debate everyone but Jews, honestly speaking I couldn’t figure you out yet, when a Turk debates the Armenian issue you take the Armenian side, when an Armenian debates a Turk you start playing neutral, when an Armenian debates a Jew all of sudden everyone in this forum gangs up including Turks/Kurds against this person and start calling him Nazi or Anti-Semite, what the hell is going on here? You people use the “Nazi and the Anti-Semite” words more often then Jews. I tell you something smells fishy around here.
In my opinion everyone should take a stand and stand firm on his feet, in life one should make up it’s mind and decide who/what he is, you cannot be hot and cold, day and night, black or white at the same time. Even Jesus Christi said something about this.
I have a big respect to anyone that stands for what they believe in, and hate paranoid people that don’t know where they stand and attack everyone try to play neutral in a hypocritical way.

Another hypocrite is Bell-the-cat, just choose a side man!

This might drive you crazy but I will say I understand your position.life is much more simpler and palatable when its divided into just black and white per say but unfortunatly it doesht reflect reality,In my younger days i felt the same until my perception of life was crushed by all the gray matter that sorrounds us,thats when I realized the key to preavale is independent thinking which is harder to do but is the only way for truthseekers.
So what am I?
I'm neither black nor white I'm all gray baby gray.

[Mika]

France has rejected the Genocide bill with the majority vote in the commission.
The matter will be discussed in the parliment on May 18th

French intellectuals, historians opposed the bill.

Turkish intellectuals who have participated the last fall's Armenian conference in Istanbul also opposed the bill, among those
BErktay, Fatma Muge, Murat Belge and Elif Shafak.

Ha-ha everything written here is just a joke

[Mika]

Ha-ha everything written here is just a joke

turks will recognize the Armenian genocide.That is inevitable

[Gavur]

French Deputy Says Armenian Genocide And Holocaust Essence

Yerkir.am
May 12, 2006

In an interview with the Turkish daily Sabah, Didie Migo, a Solicits
member of the French National Assembly and sponsor of a bill penalizing
the denial of the Armenian Genocide, said he continues to support
the bill.

"I have no intention to teaching lessons of ethics to the Turks,"
Migo was quoted as saying. "But I don't share the opinion of the
French deputies who oppose the bill."

As reported by the Noyan Tapan, Migo said the bill is the continuation
of the 2001 French law recognizing the Armenian Genocide.

He also said historians will still be free to make their assessments
and that the French courts should be trusted in evaluating the
difference between denial and assessments.

Comparing the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide, the French lawmaker
said: "For us there is no difference because there is no difference
between the Jewish Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide, both were the
same in essence, and it is incomprehensible why Turkey continues to
deny the fact of the Genocide.

This is an indisputable fact. It is, indeed, hard for a nation to
admit that their grandfathers committed unjust acts in the past."

[imported_RUDO]

450,000 Turks in France: Will you Imprison us All?

450,000 Turks in France: Will you Imprison us All?
By Ali Ihsan Aydin, Paris
Published: Tuesday, May 16, 2006
zaman.com


The bill, punishing those who deny the Armenian genocide due for discussion in the French Parliament on Thursday, is worrying the 450,000 Turks living in France.

If the bill is enacted, tens of thousands of Turkish expatriates will become potential offenders.

Turkish-French citizens say the denial bill cannot be enforced say, “Will you put in prison tens of thousands deniers of the genocide?”

Turkish expatriates have been reacting against the Socialist Party (PS), which prepared the bill, and will organize protests on May 18 before the French Assembly.

They will send their message to the French parliamentarians by chaining themselves and taping their mouths.

Turkish-origin head of the PS’s Strasbourg-Neuhof town regional office Saban Kiper, protests his party’s attempt and said, “I find it really unnecessary.” Kiper has been conducting negotiations for three weeks with the party's regional office and headquarters, as well as evoking Turkish-French citizens to protest the bill.

“Tens of thousands of Turkish-French citizens like me want to be proud of this country. However, how can you feel proud of it; it calls your ancestors murderers,” said Kiper, PS’s only Turkish origin regional branch president.

Saban, also a member of the French Joint Culture Youth Council, says tens of thousands of Turks in France may be imprisoned, if the bill is enacted.

Cojep President Ali Gedikoglu said they protested the motion with the slogan, “Don’t restrict freedoms, don’t keep the truth in the dark,” and thousands of Turks sent letters of protest to the French authorities.

Gedikoglu announced they will protest outside the French Parliament while the motion is being discussed on May 18; sending their message to parliamentarians by chaining themselves to the gates and tapping their mouths shut.

The Cojep president indicated they were able to make contact with leading figures from the Socialist Party and may possibly meet with party leader Francois Hollande.

Paris Anatolia Cultural Center Chairman Dr. Demir Onger thinks the motion is “a result of the effective lobbying activities the Armenian Diaspora in France has been conducing for 80 years,” and says, “This attempt is a shame for France that pretends to be the champion of freedom of expression.”

“France, which refers the past to the historians when the issue is its own history, passes a law on the history of another country and displays a paradoxical attitude,” cardiologist Dr. Onger defends, accusing France of “playing with the fire.”

Demir Onger noted they established the “Union for Freedom of Expression” in order to protest the motion and sent thousands of protest letters to the French authorities.

Onger criticized Turkey’s ineffective lobbying, describing it as “a vertical lobbying” conducted by top level bureaucrats or company bosses. Onger stated the Armenians follow a policy from the bottom up and said Turkey must initiate activities in an effort to persuade the French people in the long term.

Yuksel Bilici, an expatriate graduate student on “Turks’ political participation in France” living in the capital Paris, termed the proposal as an “election present” for the Armenian Diaspora asking, “Will they put 500,000 Turks in Jail?”.

Suleyman Toppeker, an official translator, said, “If 15,000 people sign a petition claiming ‘We do not believe in the genocide’, they will be immediately jailed”.

Marc Semo, an expert on Turkey from the leftist French paper, Liberation, advocating that the draft, which will cause problems over freedoms, concerns France a great deal and emphasizes the difficulty in the implementation of such a law.

There is no political integrity in France prior to the election due in 2007, Semo revealed, and added French President Jacques Chirac, favoring Turkey, will not be able to do anything because the law could be acceded in parliament on May 18.

The notice of motion leads to some concerns among expatriates, while several Turkish foundations and institutions in France have noticeably remained silent.

Some other foundations referring to Zaman’s view avoided sharing their assessments on the issue. Few pay attention to the case except for a number of foundations in France, where nearly 450,000 Turkish people reside.

[Gavur]

I guess its not that easy to deal with Gavur's outside of Turkey ey! unlike inside Turkey.
to them Turk's are Gavur's LOL!