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  • #61
    Cry me a river.

    EU 'faces backlash from Turkey'
    By Ben Hammersley
    BBC News, Turkey

    Flags of Turkey and the EU in front of Istanbul mosque, Turkey, October 2005
    EU caution towards Turkish accession may be a factor
    The European Union is risking an Islamic backlash in Turkey, according to the EU's enlargement commissioner, Olli Rehn.

    A survey showed attitudes in the country souring towards the West.

    Mr Rehn told the European Voice weekly: "If you look at the current political situation in the Middle East, in Palestine, in Lebanon, not to speak of Iraq, we don't need another nationalist or Islamist problem in the neighbourhood of Europe."

    The survey revealed Turkish approval of Europe to be falling rapidly.

    Just 27% of Turks have a favourable opinion of the European Union, compared to 58% in 2004, according to this year's annual global survey by the Pew Research Center.

    "The ongoing frustration in Turkey over its on-again, off-again membership negotiations with the EU are vividly reflected in these data," Pew said in the poll report.

    'More debate'

    EU member states this week opened accession negotiations with Turkey on two new policy areas - statistics and financial control. But after French objections talks were delayed on a third topic - economic and monetary policy.

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy also said he wanted to reopen the debate on Turkey's accession when the leaders of the EU member states meet in December.

    The French president is not in favour of Turkish entry to the EU, stating that Turkey is not a European country.



    Special report on Turkey
    But Portugal, which takes over the rotating presidency of the EU from 1 July, is in favour of Turkish membership.

    Portuguese Europe Minister Manuel Lobo Antunes said Portugal would be trying to get Turkey's membership talks "back on track".

    Earlier this week, Turkey's chief negotiator, Ali Babacan, said Ankara hoped the problems would be overcome in the next six months.

    "We are not satisfied with the technical justifications that were given to us and we hope that there will be progress in this matter during the Portuguese presidency," he said.

    According to the Pew survey, Turkey is currently the most anti-US country in the world.

    Only 9% of the country favours the US, compared to 52% in 2000, putting Turkey below the Palestinian territories with 13% US approval, and Pakistan with 15%. In the United Kingdom, 51% approved of the US.

    While 37% of Turks like American science and technology, according to the survey, 81% of Turks dislike American ideas about democracy, and 83% dislike American trade habits.

    Comment


    • #62
      This is very interesting; I read somewhere that America was a driving force in pushing EU to consider Turkey's membership; if this is the case, the Turks are certainly (ahem I am one)) not 'diplomatic' enough to atleast "pretend" to like the States...could someone enlighten me regarding the issue? perhaps I'm mistaken but I've always thought that the States and Turkey were allies through the NATO and would therefore sustain friendly relations?
      "In the practice of tolerance, one's enemy is the best teacher." Dalai Lama

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Jade View Post
        This is very interesting; I read somewhere that America was a driving force in pushing EU to consider Turkey's membership; if this is the case, the Turks are certainly (ahem I am one)) not 'diplomatic' enough to atleast "pretend" to like the States...could someone enlighten me regarding the issue? perhaps I'm mistaken but I've always thought that the States and Turkey were allies through the NATO and would therefore sustain friendly relations?
        Jade, to start with, turkey and Greece are both members of Nato but hardly allies.
        turkey's usefulness to the US is waning now that the Cold War is more or less over and turkey's refusal for "fly-over" airspace during the assault on Iraq has not put her in America's best books.
        It would be nice to think that the US would take a firm lead in recognising true democracies throughout the world regardless of strategic location, alliances or any other reasons that "may rock the American boat", but life's not like that.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Jade View Post
          This is very interesting; I read somewhere that America was a driving force in pushing EU to consider Turkey's membership; if this is the case, the Turks are certainly (ahem I am one)) not 'diplomatic' enough to atleast "pretend" to like the States...could someone enlighten me regarding the issue? perhaps I'm mistaken but I've always thought that the States and Turkey were allies through the NATO and would therefore sustain friendly relations?
          The BBC is pro-EU and pro-EU enlargement. It's typical scare tactics - we must let Turkey in because it is so awfully impolite of us not to; we must let Turkey in because anyone who says otherwise is clearly a ranting racist bigot; we must let Turkey in or Turkey will suddenly become a crazy Islamic fundamentalist state that will do very bad things to us.
          As for Turkish anti-Americanism, it is of no more significance than a teenager throwing a moody tantrum, storming out, getting an explicit tattoo, but still being back home in time for dinner. That is the limit of the rebellion and the limit of its intellectual content.
          Plenipotentiary meow!

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
            The BBC is pro-EU and pro-EU enlargement. It's typical scare tactics - we must let Turkey in because it is so awfully impolite of us not to; we must let Turkey in because anyone who says otherwise is clearly a ranting racist bigot; we must let Turkey in or Turkey will suddenly become a crazy Islamic fundamentalist state that will do very bad things to us.
            As for Turkish anti-Americanism, it is of no more significance than a teenager throwing a moody tantrum, storming out, getting an explicit tattoo, but still being back home in time for dinner. That is the limit of the rebellion and the limit of its intellectual content.
            LoL I love the image - I suppose you have a point...I think there cannot be 'right' or 'wrong' decisions concerning Turkey's entrance because both sides have negative and positive aspects that should be considered...Its a typical double trouble; large and ISLAMIC country...
            "In the practice of tolerance, one's enemy is the best teacher." Dalai Lama

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
              The BBC is pro-EU and pro-EU enlargement. It's typical scare tactics - we must let Turkey in because it is so awfully impolite of us not to; we must let Turkey in because anyone who says otherwise is clearly a ranting racist bigot; we must let Turkey in or Turkey will suddenly become a crazy Islamic fundamentalist state that will do very bad things to us.
              As for Turkish anti-Americanism, it is of no more significance than a teenager throwing a moody tantrum, storming out, getting an explicit tattoo, but still being back home in time for dinner. That is the limit of the rebellion and the limit of its intellectual content.
              That pretty much sums it up. It gets ridiculous when the Turks make threats to become more islamic if they are rejected by the EU. Like cutting off your nose to spite you face.
              General Antranik (1865-1927): I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Jade View Post
                LoL I love the image - I suppose you have a point...I think there cannot be 'right' or 'wrong' decisions concerning Turkey's entrance because both sides have negative and positive aspects that should be considered...Its a typical double trouble; large and ISLAMIC country...
                Maybe not back home in time for dinner, but certainly back home before midnight!

                Large is a legitimate reason, and the one that is mentioned most. Islamic is of course not a legitimate reason - but the only ones who seem to mention it are those who are pro-Turkey's entry. The current Muslim population of Europe are probably far more "Muslim" that most Turks!

                Turkey's over-population problem is going to be a serious problem for Turkey regardless of the EU outcome. I've heard that the real population of Turkey is well over 100 million. In April I was talking to a guy who was involved in the census for Van, and he was saying that the official population was around 300,000 but the real population was closer to a million. I think he was exagerating a bit for effect - but even if it were only 600,000 that is still a huge difference.
                Plenipotentiary meow!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Joseph View Post
                  That pretty much sums it up. It gets ridiculous when the Turks make threats to become more islamic if they are rejected by the EU. Like cutting off your nose to spite you face.
                  The Turks don't threaten that. They threaten to become more pan-Turkic, more nationalistic, more insular, and more of a go-it-alone and to-hell-with-anyone-elses-opinions regional superpower. (The last shows how unreal Turkey's dislike of America is - Turkey want to be just like America!! )

                  But true, it is all still like cutting off your nose to spite you face.
                  Plenipotentiary meow!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
                    The Turks don't threaten that. They threaten to become more pan-Turkic, more nationalistic, more insular, and more of a go-it-alone and to-hell-with-anyone-elses-opinions regional superpower. (The last shows how unreal Turkey's dislike of America is - Turkey want to be just like America!! )

                    But true, it is all still like cutting off your nose to spite you face.
                    I've read that many times, the Turkish editorialists, politicians, etc basicaly telling the Western public that Turkey may need to turn east and will perhaps become more islamic if they are rejected from the EU. As if it is the European responsibilty to keep Turkey from becominga basket case and more of a pariah.
                    General Antranik (1865-1927): I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Joseph View Post
                      I've read that many times, the Turkish editorialists, politicians, etc basicaly telling the Western public that Turkey may need to turn east and will perhaps become more islamic if they are rejected from the EU. As if it is the European responsibilty to keep Turkey from becominga basket case and more of a pariah.
                      Turkish politicians cannot say that they will make the country more Islamic. Some of them may have desires to make it so, but if they say it in public they will be off to prison!
                      Turn east just means pan-Turanic.
                      Plenipotentiary meow!

                      Comment

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