Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

[Eddo211]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

hipeter924 makes a good point.
I believe that one of the strategies that must be used is to turn your enemy’s weaknesses against them. This is a multi-front War with many different battles. Defeating "Turkishness" and a campaign of support for Turks who wish the abolishment of the laws associated with it, regardless if these moderate Turks are using AG issue to push for more rights for themselves, must become one of the fronts.

Attempting to put a check on Turkish Governments brainwashing of their youth is a strategic advantage for the future, sort of like plowing the road ahead. This is why their government goes out of its way to straighten its loosing grip. All we need to do is to apply a little grease here and there. Plus this good for everybody including the good Turks.

To win this we must think outside the box.

[Hellektor]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

I get you now. But you might call it stubborn but I still think Turkey can change for the better and it is in Armenian's self interest for that to happen.

You still didn't get it!

I don't say the Turk will not evolve, the proof, this sentence from this post:

“[If the Wilson border becomes reality] ...Turkey will get rid of a huge part of the Kurdish problem and since the “Armenian wedge” will be too wide to destroy, hence, pan-Turkism will die a final death, this will force Turks to lose all delusion of their pan-Turkic empire and maybe, just maybe, they'll start to think healthy and look objectively at their bloody history. If this happens, it may herald the start of their metamorphosis from Turk to man.”

Until then, try to show me ONE instance of Turk humanity towards Armenians who they have used and abused, raped, plundered and slaughtered; whose civilization they have destroyed while they have taken everything from us in the last thousand years. Meanwhile, we all can clearly see they have never given and are not giving an iota.

Without any facts, your claim that “Turkey can change for the better” is nothing but empty, pseudo-positivist rhetoric in the line of our miserable politicians, which is dangerous to the point that it may result in the destruction of the Armenian state and nation.

[hipeter924]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

You still didn't get it!

I don't say the Turk will not evolve, the proof, this sentence from this post:

“[If the Wilson border becomes reality] ...Turkey will get rid of a huge part of the Kurdish problem and since the “Armenian wedge” will be too wide to destroy, hence, pan-Turkism will die a final death, this will force Turks to lose all delusion of their pan-Turkic empire and maybe, just maybe, they'll start to think healthy and look objectively at their bloody history. If this happens, it may herald the start of their metamorphosis from Turk to man.”

Until then, try to show me ONE instance of Turk humanity towards Armenians who they have used and abused, raped, plundered and slaughtered; whose civilization they have destroyed while they have taken everything from us in the last thousand years. Meanwhile, we all can clearly see they have never given and are not giving an iota.

Without any facts, your claim that “Turkey can change for the better” is nothing but empty, pseudo-positivist rhetoric in the line of our miserable politicians, which is dangerous to the point that it may result in the destruction of the Armenian state and nation.

Jeez at least let me dream. There is always a possibility for everything even if that possibility is a million to one.

I am not saying you aren't right what I am saying is that I prefer to be positive and hope a good solution happens....even if the chances are so slim they are not worth mentioning.

So sorry if I upset you.

[Hellektor]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

Jeez at least let me dream. There is always a possibility for everything even if that possibility is a million to one.

I am not saying you aren't right what I am saying is that I prefer to be positive and hope a good solution happens....even if the chances are so slim they are not worth mentioning.

So sorry if I upset you.

Dear hipeter924,

I did not ask you to be negative, nor have I the right to make you stop dreaming. I did not ask you to apologize; there is no need for that either. I asked you “to show me ONE instance of Turk humanity towards Armenians” when “we all can clearly see they have never given and are not giving an iota”.

You do not upset me. What upsets me are the eerie howling and the cacophonous screeches coming from the stinking muzzles and through the sharpened teeth of malicious hyenas in shapes of men, who have gathered around a table on which the remaining less than 10 percent Armenia lies helpless, ready to be devoured, as a result of the incapability of a bunch of lousy, semi-literate, carrier-monger “politicians” who despite a mighty victory on our back, have thrown our with tooth and nail obtained tiny part of homeland into the depths of an abyss of which no salvation seems to be had.

[hipeter924]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

Dear hipeter924,

I did not ask you to be negative, nor have I the right to make you stop dreaming. I did not ask you to apologize; there is no need for that either. I asked you “to show me ONE instance of Turk humanity towards Armenians” when “we all can clearly see they have never given and are not giving an iota”.

You do not upset me. What upsets me are the eerie howling and the cacophonous screeches coming from the stinking muzzles and through the sharpened teeth of malicious hyenas in shapes of men, who have gathered around a table on which the remaining less than 10 percent Armenia lies helpless, ready to be devoured, as a result of the incapability of a bunch of lousy, semi-literate, carrier-monger “politicians” who despite a mighty victory on our back, have thrown our with tooth and nail obtained tiny part of homeland into the depths of an abyss of which no salvation seems to be had.

Every government has a bad period, but I think you can still recover. Russia will never let Armenia be destroyed by the Azeri's or the Turk's, what problem you face now is what everyone faces...globalization.

No nation is safe from the forces of globalization, I read in one other topic here about how a Armenian power plant is being bought by Turkey.

But even in NZ we have our economic war...our oil and gas is owned by Australia, many of our banks are owned by Australia...even some traitors want NZ to be part of Australia. The only thing stopping NZ becoming a slave state of Australia is state owned companies, our dairy companies and farming companies, so I am scared every day because if many of those are sold or die all hope for freedom will die with it.

What I am saying is that if Turkey is in your economy you have to fight it...to do so you will need to restructure your economy to fight it. You see Turkey has realised it can't defeat you on the battlefield so it wants to defeat you by taking control of your economy. Then this has been happening everywhere...nations have simply put down their guns...and taken out their cheque books, what we have today is not a war of army's but a war of corporations and economies.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

What Armenian Americans Think about Obama

By Khatchig Mouradian on May 15th, 2009 and filed under Community, Featured Story, News, Top Stories.

0504childobama1On May 12, I wrote an article titled “Obama Alienates Armenian Americans,” in which I presented the reaction of Armenian leaders and commentators to what the community views as the continuous stream of blows from the Obama Administration in recent weeks. In the two days following the posting of the article on the Armenian Weekly website, many readers posted their views on Obama’s “betrayals” and their suggestions about the road ahead.

The comments compelled me to write a second article, this time quoting the readers, some of whom were very insightful. After all, who are the leaders and commentators to listen to before formulating their policies and writing their commentaries if not the community itself?

At the end of the article, I suggest a way for the Obama Administration to begin remedying the situation.

‘I told you so’

Several readers said they had never trusted Obama in the first place and were surprised by the full support Obama had received from the Armenian community during his presidential campaign.

“Is anyone really surprised?” asked one reader. “I am continually surprised that people believed him. Obama wants everyone to think he’s different. But he isn’t. He’s just another politician who will say anything he has to get elected.”

Another reader agreed. “I was amazed how the Armenian community was supporting Obama and all my friends thought I was crazy every time I told them that Obama will change his views shortly after becoming president… Well, I am sad to say it happened…”

“I’m not one bit surprised that Obama has turned on the Armenians,” said a third reader. “I’m sorry to all of you fellow Armenians who actually voted for him, believing his empty promises of standing behind Armenians, among all of his other promises. The man is a good ‘campaigner’ and that’s it.”

After criticizing those who voted for Obama as well as the Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) for endorsing him, one person said, “I just feel sorry for all of you that thought Barack Obama was a ‘friend’ to Armenians. I knew this was coming, and judging from some of the previous posts here, I’m not the only Armenian with some sense!”

“I guess there were a lot of Armenians who drank the Obama Kool-Aid. You have been scammed. He got what he wanted: votes,” said yet another reader.

‘Crushed’
Most Armenian Americans supported Obama during his campaign and are now deeply disappointed.

“I am embarrassed to say that I was one of Obama’s first supporters. I purchased books and t-shirts to support Obama the candidate… I no longer like Obama the president,” read one comment.

“President Obama, you systematically crushed our hopes,” read another. “I feel duped, foolish, broken-hearted, and disgusted, all at the same time. I think you missed your ‘calling’: you should have been an actor…”

“I have never been disappointed in anything more than President Obama’s not using the ‘g-word’ on April 24th,” wrote one reader. “On five occasions he pledged to recognize the Armenian Genocide but failed as a president on recognizing the truth.”

Yet another reader summarized the situation as follows: “President Obama, you lost the love and trust of 1.5 million American Armenians and 6 million Armenians worldwide.”

Commenting on those who said they were disappointed by Obama, one person wrote, “I am glad you saw the light on Obama. There may be hope for you yet.”


‘Barking up the wrong tree’

A sentiment that is widely felt in the Armenian American community (and the Armenian Diaspora in general) is that the real actor to blame is the Armenian government, which signed a memorandum of understanding with Turkey on the eve of April 24, the Armenian Genocide Commemoration Day.

“I blame all this entirely on the Armenian president Serge Sarkisian,” wrote one reader on the website. “It is entirely his fault that Obama is breaking all his promises. He signed that so-called ‘road map’ agreement two days before April 24. He is a spineless man who has caved in to foreign pressure. He is not acting on the interests of the Armenian people and thus, he is dangerous to have as our president.”

The reader added, “By jeopardizing our national security, he and our foreign affairs minister have committed treason against the Armenian state. What’s worse, he is going to stay as our president for at least another three years.”

“We American Armenians need to stop blaming Obama’s administration,” said another, “and shift our attention to Armenia and its government. To gain credibility, respect, and monetary help, change Armenia’s mafia government.”


‘Return the paraphernalia’

The suggestion Armenian Weekly readers made ranged from the sublime to the ridiculously extreme. Most of them seemed to agree, however, that there is a need to get even more active, and make the Obama Administration feel the heat.

One person said, “It’s time to send all Democrats a message. Do not contribute to any Congressional races; get the word out about the other ways in which the president is systematically breaking his promises…”

Another asked his fellow Armenians to “wake up and change the way we do things,” calling for “a demonstration against the president and the State Department.”

A powerful call to action came from a reader who wrote, “There is no question that we’ve been ditched by the Obama Administration which is following State Department policy. I’ve just finished two letters—one to the president and one to Speaker Pelosi on these issues. Exactly right as stated in the article—the genocide resolution must now be back on the table and Congress must not let parity between Azerbaijan and Armenia be ignored. Letters, phone calls—everything—we’ve got to get back to work.”

A clearly disappointed Obama supporter had another idea: “I suggest we pick a day where all Armenians that supported him send back their Obama paraphernalia, together with it a note stating, ‘I hope the Armenian issue doesn’t mark the beginning of a huge back-slide of compromised campaign promises.’”

Making sense of it all

The Obama Administration’s genocide denial, its failure to appoint any Armenian Americans to a decent position in the administration, and its proposal to break the military aid parity between Azerbaijan and Armenia and decrease foreign aid to Armenia, not only alienated most Armenian Americans but also placed the major Armenian American organizations—all of which had supported Obama—in a very difficult situation. After all, an entire community was mobilized to support what was touted as the most “Armenian-friendly administration” ever. And it was very difficult to challenge that label, with people like Joe Biden, Samantha Power—and Barack Obama himself—on the team.

With its actions, however, it seems that the administration is trying to become the administration that is the most unfriendly to Armenians.

Adding insult to injury, there has been no reaching out from the administration to the Armenian American community in any shape or form. Armenian Americans feel insulted and betrayed, and—regardless of what the president thinks about policy issues—they deserve some respect.

The administration has to reach out to the Armenian American community. That is the only smart way ahead.

------------------------------------------------
The bold part is the funny part, instead of blaming the liar Obama they are putting all the blame on Serj. Obama has sold us out and there are still people not seeing it. We can't put all the blame on Serj his shoulder it was Obama who broke his promise not Serj. He xxxxed up, that's true but Obama is the one who screwed us.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

ET TU OBAMA? (Letter from a Former Admirer)

By Harut Sassounian, Publisher, The California Courier

Mr. President, how could you!

Your candidacy was a breath of fresh air. You stood for change. You made wonderful promises and the Armenian-American community put its trust in you.

We are now terribly disappointed because you acted not much differently than your predecessors on the Armenian Genocide issue. Your April 24 statement fell far short of your solemn pledge to recognize the Genocide.

As a Senator and presidential candidate, you left no doubt about your intentions on this issue. You spoke about it eloquently and passionately.

Yet, when the time came to issue your April 24 statement, we were surprised to find out that "genocide" had been replaced by "Meds Yeghern," a clever ploy, no doubt suggested by one of your ingenious aides.

You may want to know that "Meds Yeghern" does not mean genocide; it means "Great Calamity." Armenians used that term before the word "genocide" was coined by Raphael Lemkin in the 1940’s. "Genocide" in Armenian is "Tseghasbanoutyoun," which is a much more precise term than "Meds Yeghern," in case you decide to use it in the future.

Not only did your aides come up with the wrong Armenian word, but they failed to provide its English translation, so that non-Armenians could understand its meaning. What was, after all, the point of using an Armenian word in an English text? Did your staff run out of English euphemisms for genocide?

Just in case your resourceful advisors think that they were the first to devise the clever ploy of replacing "genocide" with "Meds Yeghern," let me inform you that several previous leaders have employed that same trick. Pope John Paul II used that term in 2001 during his visit to Armenia. The BBC observed that the Pontiff had said "Meds Yeghern" in order not to offend Turkey. Your immediate predecessor, Pres. George W. Bush, used the English translation of that same tricky word in his April 24, 2005 statement -- "This terrible event is what many Armenian people have come to call the "Great Calamity".

Mr. President, last year when you were seeking votes and financial support from Armenian-Americans, you did not promise them to recognize the "Meds Yeghern!" You actually told them: "As President, I will recognize the Armenian Genocide." Moreover, you did not state that your acknowledgment of the Genocide is contingent upon Armenian-Turkish negotiations, opening Armenia’s border, war in Iraq or anything else. You made a flat out promise, with no ifs or buts.

There are also two sets of serious contradictions in the words you used before and after your election to the presidency. In your April 24, 2009 statement, you said: "I have consistently stated my own view of what occurred in 1915, and my view of that history has not changed." Yet, on January 19, 2008, as a presidential candidate, you had said: "The Armenian Genocide is not an allegation, a personal opinion, or a point of view." Furthermore, on April 24, 2009 you stated: "My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts." Yet, as a candidate, you stated that the Armenian Genocide is "a widely documented fact supported by an overwhelming body of historical evidence. The facts are undeniable."

Mr. President, twice in one month, both in Ankara and Washington, you made a reference to your past statements on the genocide, in order to avoid using that word as president. This is an old trick that was also utilized by Pres. George H. W. Bush (Senior). In his presidential message of April 20, 1990, Bush stated: "My comments of June 1988 represent the depth of my feeling for the Armenian people and the sufferings they have endured." In order to avoid saying genocide, Pres. Bush, like you, made an indirect reference to that word, by mentioning his earlier remarks as Vice President and presidential candidate: "The United States must acknowledge the attempted genocide of the Armenian People in the last years of the Ottoman Empire, based on the testimony of survivors, scholars, and indeed our own representatives at the time, if we are to ensure that such horrors are not repeated."

Dear Mr. President, there was no need for your staff to waste their valuable time trying to come up with such ploys and verbal gymnastics. If you did not want to say genocide, you did not have to say anything at all. The Armenian Genocide has already been acknowledged by another U.S. president, Ronald Reagan, who signed a Presidential Proclamation on April 22, 1981, in which he referred to "the genocide of the Armenians."

Armenians actually gain nothing by having one more U.S. president reiterate what has been said before. As you know, presidential statements, just as congressional resolutions, have no legal consequence. Pres. Reagan’s proclamation and the adoption of two House resolutions on the Armenian Genocide in 1975 and 1984 have brought nothing tangible to Armenians in terms of seeking reparations for their immense losses in lives and property.

By not keeping your word on April 24, however, you have only succeeded in undermining your own credibility in front of the American people and world public opinion. Already, the Obameter website (politifact.com) has labeled your April 24 statement as "broken promise." This week, as you complete the first 100 days in office, major TV networks and the press are widely reporting your broken promise on the Armenian Genocide, thus undermining the trust of the American public in your other promises.

Finally, Mr. President, it was improper for you to exploit Turkey’s "make- believe" negotiations with Armenia by using it as a pretext for avoiding the "genocide" word in your April 24 statement. Given your high position, you must know that the Turkish government’s intent all along has been to create the false impression that its discussions with Armenia are proceeding smoothly, making everyone believe that the border would be opened shortly. Turkish leaders have been dangling that carrot in front of Armenia for many years. The fact is that, once you were elected president, Turkish officials took seriously your campaign pledge to recognize the Armenian Genocide and were told by your close aides that unless Ankara made a friendly gesture towards Armenia, you could well carry out your promise to the Armenian-American community.

While Turkish officials, with their fake diplomatic initiatives, managed to deceive the rest of the world, including Armenia’s relatively inexperienced leaders, you, Mr. President, knew better. You went along with Turkey’s false gestures knowingly, thus bartering away your principled stand on the Armenian Genocide in order to secure Turkish participation in the Afghan war, and carry out its U.S. assigned role with respect to Iraq, Iran, and Israel.

You must have also known that Turkey would not open its border with Armenia in the foreseeable future, unless the Karabagh conflict was resolved to Azerbaijan’s satisfaction. Using various carrots and sticks, with the connivance of Russia, which pursues its own economic and political interests in Turkey and Azerbaijan, U.S. officials succeeded in pressuring Armenia into agreeing to issue a joint declaration with Turkey and Switzerland as mediator on the eve of April 24. This declaration was a convenient cover for you to duck the genocide issue in order to appease Turkey.

Mr. President, by compelling Armenia to sign such a declaration, you have managed to pit the Armenian Diaspora, as well as the people in Armenia against the government in Yerevan. As a direct result of that action, the ARF, one of Armenia’s influential political parties, quit the ruling coalition this week. The ARF did not wish to associate itself with a government, still reeling from last year’s contentious presidential elections, which is negotiating an agreement with Turkey that could compromise the country’s national interests and historic rights. The ARF also vehemently opposes Armenia’s announced intention to participate in a bilateral historical commission that Turkey would use to question the facts of the Armenian Genocide.

Mr. President, in the coming days, as your administration invites Armenia’s leaders to Washington in order to squeeze more concessions from them, please realize that they can only be pressured so much before they lose their authority. As was the case with Armenia’s first president, crossing the red lines on the Genocide and Karabagh issues could well jeopardize the tenuous hold on power of the remaining ruling coalition, regardless of how many promises are made and carrots extended to them by Washington. Author: Harut Sassounian,

source: http://hayernaysor.am/news.php?p=4&c...6&LangID=1#626

[hrai]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

All the people who were duped by Obama, all the u-turns he's made, Bush appointees still in office and people blame Sargsyan for his statement of April 23rd.
Isn't it possible that Obama fed him a line and he swallowed it too?

[Hellektor]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

All the people who were duped by Obama, all the u-turns he's made, Bush appointees still in office and people blame Sargsyan for his statement of April 23rd.
Isn't it possible that Obama fed him a line and he swallowed it too?

It's beyond obvious the Obama administration staged the farce of signing the “road map”, which I believe is a blank paper with nothing on it, and that, announced within the shortest news breaking time before April 24, to fabricate a pretext for Obama not to utter the term Armenian Genocide and to close the chapter of Armenian Genocide recognition by parliaments of other countries. The AG recognition campaign died a certain death on April 23 2009.

The fault of our lousy Edwads and Serjes is that they did not object the date. They could very easily have said, “look, whatever your priorities, April 24 is the most important date of the Armenian calendar and it is impossible for us and extremely objectionable for our nation to sign such a document on such a day. Let's meet on April 25th or later and we'll sing the document on that day”. What? The USA was going to nuke Armenia for that? They could have definitely said something like this without any consequences but the pitiful, worthless, carrier-monger farts our statesmen are, they did not.

[Anoush]

Re: Obama refuses to Call Armenian Genocide a Genocide

It's beyond obvious the Obama administration staged the farce of signing the “road map”, which I believe is a blank paper with nothing on it, and that, announced within the shortest news breaking time before April 24, to fabricate a pretext for Obama not to utter the term Armenian Genocide and to close the chapter of Armenian Genocide recognition by parliaments of other countries. The AG recognition campaign died a certain death on April 23 2009.

The fault of our lousy Edwads and Serjes is that they did not object the date. They could very easily have said, “look, whatever your priorities, April 24 is the most important date of the Armenian calendar and it is impossible for us and extremely objectionable for our nation to sign such a document on such a day. Let's meet on April 25th or later and we'll sing the document on that day”. What? The USA was going to nuke Armenia for that? They could have definitely said something like this without any consequences but the pitiful, worthless, carrier-monger farts our statesmen are, they did not.

I agree with your statement here Hellektor one hundred per cent. It was our leader's job to put a stop or to deviate it from signing it on April 23rd. They have an extremely defeitist attitude and personally I feel that they suck doing that. Shame on Serzh and shame on Edward!!