Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks

[Haykakan]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

Not true. By definition, murder has intent and premeditation. This can be distinguised for manslaughter that lacks the intent, fitting closely with your description.

You can have intent and premeditation yet still it is rooted in emotion and passion. Most murders are crimes of passion thus the motive is not if i kill so n so then i will reap so n so rewards-its more like i hate sonsos gutts thus sonso must die. One can argue that the more planing involved = the less it is a crime of passion and more of cold calculation which is exactly what genocide is.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

If you are a turck you will be wondering why is it that the whole world recognizes this event yet we are still denying it?

Sweden Sweden Sweden Sweden Ikea Ikea hot women (I'm not gay I swear to you)

You were asked a valid question about Turkey, and responded by going on a tirade about Sweden. Typical Turkish mentality. When questioned about your own (your country's) actions, you will quickly deflect the issue and come up with excuses of why you think everyone else is crazy.

I'd be asking if they've reconciled the dark pages of their own history before passing judgments on others.

Exactly which part of their own history does Sweden deny?

I'd be questioning the methods, procedures and the qualifications of those government officials issuing their views as facts.

You even question the 99.99% of historians who say Turkey committed genocide, so why not question politicians? Question everyone but yourself, thats what you're good at.

I'd be questioning if there was any undue influence or duress of politicians seeking votes in those jurisdications.

A Turk complaining about undue duress is like a prostitute complaining about other people sleeping around.

I'd be asking why Sweden doesn't offer to set up and pay for a school of comparative Genocide studies in a Turkish university

LOL

Sweden would pay for your jokes before they pay money to a Turkish university to study genocide.

Probably because in the depths of their own heart, the're really only pretending to care.

Again, you love discussing what other people's motives might be, or what is really in their hearts. The sad thing is, you can't face up to whats in your own heart.

Sweden, just stick to making Ikea furniture and hot women (and yes Alexandros, I'm a male and not some hairy legged l.esbian).

You should stick to hiring Armenians to work and think for you. Afterall it worked for your ancestors.

[hipeter924]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

It's a flawed argument. Murderers get prosecuted, jailed and even the death penalty in some places but that never stops murders from happening again in the same places again. Tragically, the chances are there will be future genocides irrespective of what anybody says and does today.

The reason why murders still happen is because some people don't agree with another individuals or groups right to life, are generally violent; or have some kind of psychological issue that turns them to such actions. So what I suggested is that people should come to understand genocide is wrong (not simply someone else saying it's wrong) and have the capacity within themselves not to do genocide again, and admitting facts such as genocide and recognising on a political and intellectual level provides them a minimal incentive to this.

[Eddo211]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

I'd also be questioning the selective morality of some of the countries passing these resolutions. I'd be asking if they've reconciled the dark pages of their own history before passing judgments on others. I'd be questioning the methods, procedures and the qualifications of those government officials issuing their views as facts. I'd be questioning if there was any undue influence or duress of politicians seeking votes in those jurisdications. I'd be asking what they have done to redress or prevent modern attrocities from happening in their own lifetime instead of being preoccupied with historical events. I'd be wondering what they are actually doing to facilitate communication and knowledge about the events they are issuing symbolic statements against.

That is exactly what Turks say.

I'd be asking why Sweden doesn't offer to set up and pay for a school of comparative Genocide studies in a Turkish university instead of wasting valuable time and money on political grandstanding.

Probably because in the depths of their own heart, the're really only pretending to care. Sweden, just stick to making Ikea furniture and hot women (and yes Alexandros, I'm a male and not some hairy legged l.esbian).

This one I haven't heard yet.

[Davo88]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

Turkey PM threatens to expelle Armenians:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62G2GN20100317

Uncomfortable Truth:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article7066163.ece

It was unthinkable that this evil government would make such threats, but hey we're dealing with the same Turkey after all.

[Jos]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

Turkey PM threatens to expelle Armenians:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62G2GN20100317

Uncomfortable Truth:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article7066163.ece

It was unthinkable that this evil government would make such threats, but hey we're dealing with the same Turkey after all.

He's not the first politician to make idiotic comments and neither will he be the last. And your too quick to jump to concluding the government is evil. This is precisely the sort of political grandstanding and showcasing the genocide issue generates. Hence why any symbolic and toothless resolutions should be avoided. It's fuel for radicals and extremist behavior. This issue needs to be dealt with at non-government levels.

[ashot24]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

He's not the first politician to make idiotic comments and neither will he be the last. And your too quick to jump to concluding the government is evil. This is precisely the sort of political grandstanding and showcasing the genocide issue generates. Hence why any symbolic and toothless resolutions should be avoided. It's fuel for radicals and extremist behavior. This issue needs to be dealt with at non-government levels.

If the Turkish government and people wouldn't be acting like the "victims" and would start revising the history their past political leaders erroneously wrote for them to believe, things would be different...but of course, it it always easier to lay the blame on someone else than acknowledging the blame is on you, so they blame the Armenian diaspora (stupidly thinking that they are the only ones who push for Genocide recognition), the US, Swedish parliaments, the politicians who approved it, make fun of Armenia by statements such as "How many of those who voted for the resolution can find Armenia on the map?", and in recent events even dare to threat Armenians with mass deportations...what image of Turkey do they want the world to have? They are just making it clearer for everyone that they are guilty of what we are accusing them of

I don't think Turkey's government is "evil", I think they're not honest on their statements, and awfully not-organized as their important members seem to pull on different directions...but oh my God, Erdoğan is an idiot with capital I, he's not a politician, he's a fistfighter, a macho, an ultra-nationalist, intolerant, etc. but NOT a politician! Gül is more decent and Davutoğlu is the person in between them, but if they want Turkey to have a change and actually change, such as Gül stated, they should fire Erdoğan immediately or put him in his place...they speak of one thing, but Erdoğan speaks completely the other way and refutes it...it seems he acts by his own will and forgets his position in the government.

[Eddo211]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

....I don't think Turkey's government is "evil", I think they're not honest on their statements, and awfully not-organized as their important members seem to pull on different directions...but oh my God, Erdoğan is an idiot with capital I, he's not a politician, he's a fistfighter, a macho, an ultra-nationalist, intolerant, etc. but NOT a politician! Gül is more decent and Davutoğlu is the person in between them, but if they want Turkey to have a change and actually change, such as Gül stated, they should fire Erdoğan immediately or put him in his place...they speak of one thing, but Erdoğan speaks completely the other way and refutes it...it seems he acts by his own will and forgets his position in the government.

It is a strategy, Erdo is a good politician soon to get more powerful.............btw, it doesn't get more evil than this for us mortals on this planet and in this day and age.

[ashot24]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

Erdoğan under fire at home for remarks on Armenian workers

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's remarks about the possible deportation of irregular Armenian workers in Turkey have angered civil society organizations despite the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) attempts to explain that Erdoğan did not intend to expel these workers but only wanted to underline Turkey's “magnanimity.”

“Look, there are 170,000 Armenians in my country -- 70,000 of them are my citizens, but we are managing [tolerating] 100,000 of them in our country. So, what will we do tomorrow? If it is necessary, I will tell them, ‘Come on, back to your country.' I will do it. Why? They are not my citizens. I am not obliged to keep them in my country. I mean these are [defenders of the Armenian claims of genocide], their attitude is affecting our sincere attitude in a negative way, and they are not aware of it,” Erdoğan told the BBC Turkish service in an interview on Tuesday during a visit to London for talks with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown. He was responding to a question about a couple of resolutions passed at a US congressional panel and in the Swedish Parliament earlier this month recognizing Armenian claims of genocide by Ottoman Turks a century ago. He described the votes as a “show” and warned that they were harming Turkey's efforts to normalize its ties with Armenia. “We are committed to the zero-problem policy [with Turkey's neighbors], but there is nothing we can do if the other side clenches its fist while we extend a hand.”

Leaving aside foreign policy considerations, civil society organizations criticized Erdoğan's remarks on several grounds: first, he mentioned Armenian Turkish citizens together with the citizens of Armenia, and secondly, he was using foreign workers as a tool of foreign policy and neglecting the humanitarian side of the problem.

But Suat Kınıklıoğlu, deputy chairman of the AK Party Foreign Affairs Committee, underlined that Erdoğan was trying to explain that Turkey tolerates the irregular Armenian workers. “As has been known for many years, there are Armenians illegally living and working in Turkey, and as a reflection of our goodwill and efforts toward normalization which started in 2005, we do not really touch them.

We tolerate them and take their difficult circumstances into consideration. In particular, we are not questioning their status due to the acceleration of the normalization process in Turkish-Armenian relations. The prime minister needed to draw this fact to people’s attention, especially now, when resolutions have been accepted which damage normalization. I think Turkey’s magnanimity is being ignored,” he said, and added that the prime minister did not mean he would immediately send those workers back to their country.

Öztürk Türkdoğan, the chairman of the Human Rights Association (İHD), said Erdoğan’s remarks could easily be considered a “threat” and as discrimination. “These remarks could lead some people to think that to expel people is a 2010 version of forced migration. This mentality is far from human rights-oriented thinking. People have the right to work, and this is universal. There are many Turkish workers all over the world; does it mean that Turkey will accept their expulsion when there is an international problem? Secondly, these remarks are discriminatory; there are many workers in Turkey of different nationalities,” he said.

Ceren Öztürk from the immigrant solidarity network said that free circulation of people is a universal right and Erdoğan’s remarks are not acceptable. “The right to free circulation cannot be used as a wild card in international relations. Immigrants have to have equal rights with Turkish citizens because they are producing and contributing to society,” she said.

Armenian issue as litmus test

Journalist Hayko Bağdat said Turkish foreign policy loves the principle of “reciprocity,” but uses its own citizens who are minorities. “If the prime minister is angry with the US or Sweden, he should expel the citizens of those countries who are living or working in Turkey. The poor Armenian workers here -- by the way, their number is not 100,000 at all -- have nothing to do with the genocide resolutions,” he said.

He added that Erdoğan had also made a distinction between “good Armenians” and “bad Armenians.” “The prime minister mentioned Armenian Turkish citizens and Armenian citizens together, but later talked about expelling the poor Armenian workers. This means that the official policy has been lying to us for years. He put everyone in the same category, but according to what -- according to their ethnic origin. But for years we have been told that there are no distinctions on the basis of ethnic origin. This means that “unity” is not internalized and the roots of discrimination are very strong,” Bağdat said.

He added that there are two camps in Turkey now: one is claiming that it is trying to change the system and the other one is resisting this change, but when it comes to the Armenians, they have a common understanding.

“The Armenian question is the litmus test for everyone to find out if they really want a change in the system,” he said. After the “genocide” resolutions in the US and Sweden, during a debate over the issue in Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Commission, Canan Arıtman from the Republican People’s Party (CHP) suggested deporting Armenian workers in Turkey. In the past, she has also called for an investigation into the ancestry of President Abdullah Gül’s mother, implying that she was of Armenian origin. Gül took Arıtman to court.

The İHD’s Türkdoğan was also critical of Erdoğan’s remarks regarding ethnically Armenian Turkish citizens: “We can see that the classic republican understanding based on ethnic Turkism is still valid. Minorities cannot be the subject of bargaining in international relations. This is racist discourse and only proves how far we are from a human rights-oriented perspective,” Türkdoğan said.

Number of Armenian workers is controversial issue

There is controversy over the precise number of Armenians illegally working in Turkey, but a recent study by the Eurasia Partnership Foundation claimed that there are between 12,000 and 13,000 Armenian citizens working in Turkey. The study conducted by Alin Özinan states that according to official numbers, 6,000 Armenians did not return home after traveling to Turkey between 2000 and 2008. Özinan adds figures from the 1990s to this number and says the number of Armenians illegally living in Turkey is not 70,000 to 100,000 as has previously been asserted, but is actually between 12,000 and 13,000.

According to the study, 94 percent of the Armenians working in Turkey are women, with very few Armenian men accompanying their spouses or working here. Armenian women tend to work as childcare providers, servants, janitors and saleswomen. Most of the Armenian men who accompany their wives here choose not to work at all, while those who do tend to work in the xxxelry business. In the past, Turkish foreign ministers and diplomats have also claimed that the Armenians living in Turkey number around 70,000. Turkey has deported very few Armenians working irregularly here in recent years, the report says, asserting that Armenians are only deported if they have committed a crime outside of working illegally; the crime rate amongst immigrant Armenians is very low.

18 March 2010, Thursday

AYŞE KARABAT ANKARA

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-204663-102-erdogan-under-fire-at-home-for-remarks-on-armenian-workers.html

[Jos]

Re: Sweden`s Parliament Recognizes The Genocide Against The Armenians, Assyrians, Gre

It is a strategy, Erdo is a good politician soon to get more powerful.............btw, it doesn't get more evil than this for us mortals on this planet and in this day and age.

He's a populist politician and does whatever's required to feed that popularity. Also remember it's just a reaction to recent international resolutions and a show of defiance for local supporters. The threat will have almost zero chance of being carried out because Armenian immigrants actually benefit the economy by filling up jobs no one wants or are qualified to do.

But do you mean "it doesn't get more evil"? Deporting illegal immigrants isn't an unusual practice. Not long ago, Saudi Arabia deported nearly 1 million Yemeni's, the US probably deports more than 100,000 Mexicans every year (my guess).