Vive La France !!!!!

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

if the only time someone thinks they have to tell the truth is when they are under oath they are morally bankrupt. People who think the world is flat are ignorant(it's hard to fix stupid). Your confusion as to (where do we draw the line )is telling.----- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink----/Artashes

Morality has nothing to do here. You made a very stupid statement and where caught lying and are now trying to weasel yourself out of it. So where is the proof for your last statement? And I'm not confused at all, I'm just asking the people that believe there is a need for limits, where we draw the line.

KarotheGreat , firstly i don't live in US and i don't give a xxxx about the US amendments and all i'm in Europe,what US has for law it will not make it also a universal one ok? the way of your thinking shows great american arrogance,the law is passed in France and its about what ever happens in there soil.
US and others ps. like you shows arrogance of what is freedom of speach and how it can be used against others.
For better understanding of the matter you should see how governments treat some religious sects or how they try to prevent one to be spread to its population for 1,2,3, reasons.
All the Laws are a tool to determine of how we like to live in our country.

I'm very sad that u support turkish side ,cause it hearts only them what this has to do with your freedom of speech ? are you gonna say Genocide is a lie too? or are you our new Captain America guy?

I live right next to France so I have every right to complain against this law, especially if there is a chance that this becomes a law around the whole of the European Union.
I have said it before and I will repeat myself: if you don't like what I write then that is your problem. I will not stop writing because you have a problem with it. I am also against the treatment of religious sects, freedom of religion should be something universal as well. No government should ever have the power to tell us what is right or wrong to believe.
Yes laws are tools to determine how we like to live in a country, and I have the right to fight any law that I think is wrong.
So I should forget about my principles and become a sheep and follow the crowd because that is the cool thing to do? If I wanted to say it I should have the right to do it!
And al those personal attacks show how much merit your argument has.

Approval and laws are different things.

There is a clear difference between executive decisions ( e.g. approval) and laws set by parliament.

Parliament has a duty to explain to the public as to why a particular law is created, typically through public debate.

You still haven't answered my question.

If we are serious about freedom of speech and democracy then we cannot allow institutions misuse that freedom of speech as pretext and a tool to change history and piss all over us by this well oiled denialist political machine. I hope it does pass because it will be a blow to Ankara.

Taner Ackam has it right:

This will do nothing against Ankara except that they will gain more popularity in Turkey. I don't see how this is a blow against Turkey, it only shows that some people are willing to do anything to smother everything that doesn't agree with their view. I want to fight the trukish propaganda machine, go and study history, research the genocide and release papers, write books about the subject make the people hear your view. There is a right way to do things and there is a wrong way.
Laws like this have the power to stop historical debate on any subject. How long until governments pass laws that it is illegal to discuss their view on history on any subject possible?

Amen!

A few people on this thread/forum post examples of turcish propaganda, post links to turc propaganda, seem to believe turc propaganda. It may surprise some people but not everyone sees the USA as the promised land.

In my view, if it walks like a turc, talks like a turc, it's probably a turc.

Yes personal attacks towards people who don't agree with you show how much merit your arguments have. Your are the same as your enemy the only difference is the paint coat.

exactly
if people haven't noticed, the American system is not perfect. Furthermore, the American freedom of speech has very strong limits on libel, slander, hate speech, and much more. It's like the morons who claim they can say whatever they want in a work or school environment, because they have a freedom of speech. There is nothing unconstitutional about a law that stops liars intentionally spreading hateful propaganda to dilute the minds of innocent bystanders and smearing basic historic and scientific facts.

Can you show me where the United States has stopped hate speech? If an organization as the Westboro Baptist church is allowed to exist it shows that hate speech is not a problem in the US. Any private organization can do as they please however it is not up to government to tell us what is true or isn't and what we can say and what we can't!
Again the liar argument, you don't see this as a slippery slope do you? Where any country can chose what is the truth and start punishing those that don't agree with them. Let's say tomorrow Germany passes a law say Khojali happened like the Azeris say and anybody that denies it will go to jail for 10 years! Does that not sound retarded to you?

You want to defeat the Turks, use their own game against them. Go and defeat them in the public forum, prove to the world that they are lying but the thing that we shouldn't do is turn in to them!

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Just a thought: If their is any one in the world that seeks to be an person of honor and does not want to hear a mature responsible adult tell them to shut the f?ck up then the should not say things that warrant that/Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

In regards Eddo 211 comment //325 first part where he says:If we are serious about freedom of speech then we cannot allow etc. I would like to carry on from there and say:we cannot allow this wonderful freedom to be misused,we need to protect freedom of from dishonor. We need to understand freedom of speech, honor freedom of speech, and do not corrupt freedom of speech.

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Amen!

A few people on this thread/forum post examples of turcish propaganda, post links to turc propaganda, seem to believe turc propaganda. It may surprise some people but not everyone sees the USA as the promised land.

In my view, if it walks like a turc, talks like a turc, it's probably a turc.

That's interesting to hear another point point of view about America than what I'm surrounded with every day. If anyone is interested here is my personal view of what is taking place here (America)now. America is not the promised.land any more. But if you gotta get out of dodge and go to another country it is still the place to shoot for . Unless you have action somewhere else. Unfortunately America is in great need of guidance when it comes to moral integrity. Now if you want to talk about multinational corporations moral integrity then then :quote:shakespear: To horse brother, I fear foul play is afoot./I'm actually more hopeful in Europe/Scandia realizing that this corporate model is the identical of Turk

[Mher]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Amen!

A few people on this thread/forum post examples of turcish propaganda, post links to turc propaganda, seem to believe turc propaganda. It may surprise some people but not everyone sees the USA as the promised land.

In my view, if it walks like a turc, talks like a turc, it's probably a turc.

exactly
if people haven't noticed, the American system is not perfect. Furthermore, the American freedom of speech has very strong limits on libel, slander, hate speech, and much more. It's like the morons who claim they can say whatever they want in a work or school environment, because they have a freedom of speech. There is nothing unconstitutional about a law that stops liars intentionally spreading hateful propaganda to dilute the minds of innocent bystanders and smearing basic historic and scientific facts.

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

KarotheGreat , firstly i don't live in US and i don't give a xxxx about the US amendments and all i'm in Europe,what US has for law it will not make it also a universal one ok? the way of your thinking shows great american arrogance,the law is passed in France and its about what ever happens in there soil.
US and others ps. like you shows arrogance of what is freedom of speach and how it can be used against others.
For better understanding of the matter you should see how governments treat some religious sects or how they try to prevent one to be spread to its population for 1,2,3, reasons.
All the Laws are a tool to determine of how we like to live in our country.

I'm very sad that u support turkish side ,cause it hearts only them what this has to do with your freedom of speech ? are you gonna say Genocide is a lie too? or are you our new Captain America guy?

Amen!

A few people on this thread/forum post examples of turcish propaganda, post links to turc propaganda, seem to believe turc propaganda. It may surprise some people but not everyone sees the USA as the promised land.

In my view, if it walks like a turc, talks like a turc, it's probably a turc.

[Eddo211]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

If we are serious about freedom of speech and democracy then we cannot allow institutions misuse that freedom of speech as pretext and a tool to change history and piss all over us by this well oiled denialist political machine. I hope it does pass because it will be a blow to Ankara.

Taner Ackam has it right:

What should be clear to everyone is this: In Turkey, genocide denial is an industry. It is also a state policy of primary importance. The National Security Council, Turkey’s highest constitutional authority, established in 2001 a Coordinating Committee for the Fight Against Baseless Claims of Genocide. All of the important ministries, including the Armed Forces, are represented on this committee, which is chaired by the vice prime minister. I repeat: Denying the genocide is one of the most important national policies of the Turkish state. You need to realize that you aren’t just confronting a simple “denial,” but you’re up against a “denialist regime.”

As long as Turkey continues this state policy of genocide denial through its institutions, relations, and mentality, Ankara will be sensitive to external pressure. In fact, this pressure should be increased. What happened in Libya and Syria needs to happen in Turkey also, with regard to genocide denial, even if the content and scope of the pressure are different.

If the West is serious about democracy in the Middle East, it cannot build democracy by supporting a denialist regime. Historical denial, both as institution and mindset, is probably the greatest stumbling block to peace and democracy in the Middle East. Why do Christians, Kurds, and Arabs in Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq feel intimidated by Turkey? Why aren’t they keen on Turkey’s intervention for democracy and human rights? Because they see, in today’s denialist regime of Turkey, the Unionists’ mentality that committed crimes against them in the past.

The South African regime didn’t collapse from internal pressure alone. The support of international public opinion was also very important. As long as the West allows Turkey’s denialist politics to continue, genocide denial will go on.

We are faced with the huge issue of how to prevent mass murders and genocides in today’s global community. To that end, the space for genocide denial in the international arena must be narrowed and ultimately eliminated. Turkey’s denial policy should be reconsidered within this perspective of prevention of genocide in the global world.

[londontsi]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

All the Laws are a tool to determine of how we like to live in our country.

Too damn right.

End of argument !!

[UrMistake]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

KarotheGreat , firstly i don't live in US and i don't give a xxxx about the US amendments and all i'm in Europe,what US has for law it will not make it also a universal one ok? the way of your thinking shows great american arrogance,the law is passed in France and its about what ever happens in there soil.
US and others ps. like you shows arrogance of what is freedom of speach and how it can be used against others.
For better understanding of the matter you should see how governments treat some religious sects or how they try to prevent one to be spread to its population for 1,2,3, reasons.
All the Laws are a tool to determine of how we like to live in our country.

I'm very sad that u support turkish side ,cause it hearts only them what this has to do with your freedom of speech ? are you gonna say Genocide is a lie too? or are you our new Captain America guy?

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Show me an article in the law that allows a state to do something like that. Everyday people go and try to spread the word that evolution didn't happen and god created everything today we have prove that they are wrong, should they be charged with a crime? Or people who think the earth is flat? These are all lies, should they be charged with a crime? No country has any laws against lying, the only time you can not lie is under oath but that is something different.

Now you have to show me a law that states you can not lie! Because this is BS!

if the only time someone thinks they have to tell the truth is when they are under oath they are morally bankrupt. People who think the world is flat are ignorant(it's hard to fix stupid). Your confusion as to (where do we draw the line )is telling.----- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink----/Artashes