Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

[North Pole]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I am sure America OKed attack on South Ossetia.


Russian military experts stunned by contents found in Hummer vehicles seized from Georgians

MOSCOW. Aug 26 (Interfax-AVN) - Twenty people driving around in American Hummer vehicles near Poti have been detained and eight of them have been released, Russian General Staff Deputy Head Anatoly Nogovitsyn has said.

"We have checked these 20 and released eight of them. The 12 remaining persons are being checked further," Nogovitsyn said at a news conference in Moscow on Tuesday.

The Russian side has a special interest in this incident, he said. "It is not accidental, as we can see that the Pentagon is worried about its Hummer's," the general said.

"We have discovered a lot of interesting things stuffed into these vehicles. And we continue working in this direction," he said.

A video showing Hummers and captured troops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtGoEOAToeg

http://www.izvestia.ru/cgi/lenta.cgi?id=2938&num=1

[North Pole]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

GEORGIAN TANKS VS. OSSETIAN TEENAGERS

The Story of Tskhinvali's Resistance

SPIEGEL correspondent Uwe Klussmann in the destroyed capital of South Ossetia.

When Georgian forces moved into the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali on Aug. 7, they underestimated the Ossetians' determination to resist them. Young men opened fire with Kalashnikovs and teenagers hurled petrol bombs at tanks. Now the local Russian-sponsored regime is triumphant.

Anyone who wants to know what Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili's word is worth can see it in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali these days. Pensioner Wachtang Babeyev still speaks a little of the Georgian he learned in Soviet times, when Ossetians and Georgians lived together peacefully, although not without tension, as the citizens of one country. On the afternoon of Aug. 7 the retired carpenter was sitting in his apartment in Karl-Marx Street watching a televised speech by Saakashvilli. The president's words made him feel hopeful.

Saakashvili, speaking in the Georgian capital Tbilisi, said he had "given the very painful order not to return fire" if South Ossetians fired upon Georgian security forces. He ended his speech with the appeal: "Let us stop the spiral of fear. Give peace and dialogue a chance." A few hours later Babeyev was about to cook his dinner when shells started falling around his apartment block. He fled into the cellar of an adjoining building with nine neighbors. It was a sleepless, frightening night. Hours of artillery bombardment reduced apartment blocks into ruins, wrecked cars and turned gardens into shell holes.

The following morning Georgian warplanes flew bombing runs to complete the destruction. Then tanks arrived to "restore the constitutional order," as Saakashvili put it -- an order that never existed in South Ossetia. When the Soviet Union was dissolved, three de facto states emerged on the territory of the former Soviet Republic of Georgia: South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the new Georgia, which succeeded in becoming a member of the United Nations with the old borders drawn by Stalin.

Desire for Self-Determination

South Ossetians can't understand people who call them "separatists." They say they never broke away from Georgia because they never joined the new country when it was formed after the Soviet Union collapsed. It's impossible to find anyone in this part of the world who can seriously imagine the territory being a part of Georgia in future. What much of the world is labelling as "separatism" is in fact the yearning for autonomy by a small people that was divided against its wishes.

READ MORE -- http://www.spiegel.de/international/...574516,00.html

[Armanen]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Have any of you come across any articles stating when other nations may recognize Abkhazia's and SO's independence? An article in today's wall street journal said that north korea, cuba, venezuala, belarus, and maybe some of the central asian nations may recognize the 2 soon.

[North Pole]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Have any of you come across any articles stating when other nations may recognize Abkhazia's and SO's independence? An article in today's wall street journal said that north korea, cuba, venezuala, belarus, and maybe some of the central asian nations may recognize the 2 soon.

I haven't.

I condemn Russia's decision to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia - Barack Obama

This xxxxroach is trying to get into the White House actually....
And Americans support him.

Barack Obama Statement on Russia's Decision to Recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as Independent States:

August 26, 2008 -- Chicago, IL -- "I condemn Russia's decision to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states and call upon all countries of the world not to accord any legitimacy to this action.

"The United States should call for a meeting of the United Nations Security Council to condemn Russia's decision in coordination with our European allies.

The U.S. should lead within the UN and other international forums to cast a clear and unrelenting light on the decision, and to further isolate Russia internationally because of its actions. The OSCE must also send a serious monitoring group to Georgia.

"Georgia's economic recovery is an urgent strategic priority that demands the focused attention of the United States and our allies. That is why Senator Biden and I have called for $1 billion in reconstruction assistance to help the people of Georgia in this time of great trial. I also welcome NATO's decision to establish a NATO-Georgia Commission and applaud the new French and German initiatives to continue work on these issues within the EU. The Bush Administration should call for a US-EU-Georgia summit in September that focuses on strategies for preserving Georgia's territorial integrity and advancing its economic recovery.

"Russia's government must respect the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Georgia and other independent states. Its refusal to do so calls into question its commitment to the responsibilities of membership to organizations such as the OCSE and the Russia-NATO Council, its application to join the WTO and the OECD, and makes it impossible for Congress to enact the civil nuclear agreement. If Russia's government continues to violate the norms and practices of the international community, the United States and our allies must review all aspects of relations with Russia.

"Let us be clear, no one wants to see another Cold War with Russia. The United States and Russia have many mutual interests, and Russia has the potential to become a critical stakeholder in the international system. But Russia's recent choices --not American or European decisions -- are threatening this potential and reminding us all that peace and security in Europe cannot be taken for granted," said Senator Barack Obama.

Source: http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/b...outh-ossetia-i

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

A good read!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/28/russia.usforeignpolicy

[North Pole]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

By the way, this is NOT Obama's arrogance, it's his policy.

Statement of Senator Obama on Tensions in the Caucasus Region Between Georgia and Russia

July 23, 2008


Chicago, IL -- "Over the last several weeks, Russia and Georgia have been engaged in a steadily more dangerous confrontation over two secessionist regions of Georgia -- South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Although these territories are located within Georgia's internationally-recognized borders, the Russian government seems determined to challenge Georgia's territorial integrity in both places. Developments took an especially provocative turn several days ago when four Russian warplanes violated Georgian airspace close to the Georgian capital for forty minutes.

All parties -- Russia first and foremost -- must now reduce tensions, avoid the risks of war, and reengage in peaceful negotiations.

As I stated in April of this year, I am committed to upholding the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia. This commitment has long been a fundamental building block of U.S. policy, and it will not change under an Obama Administration. I also affirm Georgia's right to pursue NATO membership. This aspiration in no way threatens the legitimate defense interests of Georgia's neighbors.

Only a political settlement can resolve the conflicts over Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Russia needs to roll back the aggressive actions it has taken in the last three months. The Georgian government must resist the temptation to be drawn into a military conflict. All parties must make clear that they are committed to a diplomatic settlement and will not seek to resolve this dispute by force.

The international community must become more active in trying to defuse this confrontation. The fact that Russia has become a party to the conflict means that Russia is not qualified to play the role of a mediator.

The visit to Georgia by German Foreign Minister Steinmeier this week was a positive, important step towards establishing a larger role for the European Union. The Euro-Atlantic community must speak with one voice in helping to promote peace in this volatile region. As part of the de-escalation process, a multilateral peacekeeping force must eventually replace the Russian peacekeeping force currently deployed in Abkhazia."

Democratic National Convention




Russia: NATO interference means war

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:09:45 GMT

Russia's ambassador to NATO has warned that any military interference in the Caucasus conflict will be considered as declaration of war.

In an interview with the Russian newspaper Vremya Novostei, Dmitry Rogozin, warned that any NATO attack on the Moscow-backed regions would "mean a declaration of war on Russia."

This is while the Russian President Dmitry Medvedev held talks with the Chinese President Hu Jintao in Tajikistan ahead of the summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) which is taking place on Thursday.

Medvedev, "informed his Chinese colleague about the situation in South Ossetia and Abkhazia," AFP reported. The two men also discussed regional and international issues.
The SCO is an intergovernmental organization which was founded in 2001 by the leaders of China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Iran holds an observer status in the SCO. This year's summit will also be attended by the presidents of the above mentioned nations on August 28.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=67757&sectionid=351020602

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

By the way, this is NOT Obama's arrogance, it's his policy.

Statement of Senator Obama on Tensions in the Caucasus Region Between Georgia and Russia

July 23, 2008


Chicago, IL -- "Over the last several weeks, Russia and Georgia have been engaged in a steadily more dangerous confrontation over two secessionist regions of Georgia -- South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Although these territories are located within Georgia's internationally-recognized borders, the Russian government seems determined to challenge Georgia's territorial integrity in both places. Developments took an especially provocative turn several days ago when four Russian warplanes violated Georgian airspace close to the Georgian capital for forty minutes.

All parties -- Russia first and foremost -- must now reduce tensions, avoid the risks of war, and reengage in peaceful negotiations.

As I stated in April of this year, I am committed to upholding the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia. This commitment has long been a fundamental building block of U.S. policy, and it will not change under an Obama Administration. I also affirm Georgia's right to pursue NATO membership. This aspiration in no way threatens the legitimate defense interests of Georgia's neighbors.

Only a political settlement can resolve the conflicts over Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Russia needs to roll back the aggressive actions it has taken in the last three months. The Georgian government must resist the temptation to be drawn into a military conflict. All parties must make clear that they are committed to a diplomatic settlement and will not seek to resolve this dispute by force.

The international community must become more active in trying to defuse this confrontation. The fact that Russia has become a party to the conflict means that Russia is not qualified to play the role of a mediator.

The visit to Georgia by German Foreign Minister Steinmeier this week was a positive, important step towards establishing a larger role for the European Union. The Euro-Atlantic community must speak with one voice in helping to promote peace in this volatile region. As part of the de-escalation process, a multilateral peacekeeping force must eventually replace the Russian peacekeeping force currently deployed in Abkhazia."

Democratic National Convention




Russia: NATO interference means war

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:09:45 GMT

Russia's ambassador to NATO has warned that any military interference in the Caucasus conflict will be considered as declaration of war.

In an interview with the Russian newspaper Vremya Novostei, Dmitry Rogozin, warned that any NATO attack on the Moscow-backed regions would "mean a declaration of war on Russia."

This is while the Russian President Dmitry Medvedev held talks with the Chinese President Hu Jintao in Tajikistan ahead of the summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) which is taking place on Thursday.

Medvedev, "informed his Chinese colleague about the situation in South Ossetia and Abkhazia," AFP reported. The two men also discussed regional and international issues.
The SCO is an intergovernmental organization which was founded in 2001 by the leaders of China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Iran holds an observer status in the SCO. This year's summit will also be attended by the presidents of the above mentioned nations on August 28.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?i...onid=351020602

Its aggravating but take it with a grain of salt. After all the posturing by McCain, the Democrats have to take the same line. Its politics. If Obama is elected, the US will temper their policies.

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Georgians stuck in limbo begin to lash out at Saakashvili

By Shaun Walker in Tkviavi, Georgia
Thursday, 28 August 2008

Passing along the road to Tkviavi, the lush green fields, bountiful orchards and gentle slopes of the Caucasus foothills give off the air of a sleepy rural paradise. But the scorched earth and burnt-out shells of cars that litter the roadside are clues that all is not right here, and the silence gripping the town that two weeks ago had a population of 1,300 is eerie.

Tkviavi is the closest town inside Georgia “proper” to the border with South Ossetia and its capital, Tskhinvali. Its residents watched as Georgian troops poured up the road three weeks ago in their ill-fated push to regain South Ossetia, and they watched as the army fled, leaving their village undefended. Along with them went the young of the town, scared of counter-attacks. Only the elderly and sick remained.

Then, on 12 August, Russian jets bombed the village, destroying dozens of homes. For a week afterwards, the feared maradyori – marauding gangs of South Ossetians and other irregular militias – surged down the road from Tskhinvali in an orgy of looting, torching and killing.

Now, its people are stuck in limbo. The Russians have established a checkpoint further down the road at Karaleti, preventing those who fled from returning to help their elderly relatives.

But while there was initial fury among the residents at the “Ossetian dogs” who had robbed and trashed their homes, now the target of the anger in Tkviavi seems to be changing. There is a corresponding backlash against President Mikheil Saakashvili, for bring misfortune upon them.

“Please tell everyone in Russia, in the world, that we want to be with Russia, we don’t want Saakashvili. He has brought us nothing but trouble,” implored Karaman Goguashvili, 77. “We don’t need Nato, we don’t need America, we need to be friends with Russia.”

When asked if they agreed with this, the other villagers in the group nodded vigorously. “We’re all people who have been through a lot in our lives, we’re not easily scared,” added Mr Goguashvili, pointing out the garden where he and his wife hid during the looting raids. “But now we are all scared. Many people have died here. Who will defend us? Who will look after us? We are left here all alone.”

In one area at the edge of the town, some houses are razed. Debris and twisted bits of metal litter the ground. A large group of villagers showed us round their destroyed houses, each one recounting a tale more pitiful than the last.

Inside another house that had only light bomb damage, two elderly men sat in stained white vests. They sat in silence, their hands clutching a rail in front of them and shaking uncontrollably. When questioned, neither man even registered the question or the presence of a stranger in the house. They simply continued staring at the wall, their scrawny hands quivering. “He’s been like this ever since the bombings,” wailed the distraught wife of one. “We don’t know what to do. We need medicines, doctors. But nothing is coming.”

The Russian bombing attacks on Georgia have mostly targeted military infrastructure, and where they have missed, such as in Gori, there were obvious military targets nearby. But there is nothing of military importance in this village, and the bombing raids came days after the Georgian army had fled.

One shopkeeper said he had only voted for Mr Saakashvili because government officials told him his shop would be closed down if he did not. “Russia protected Georgia for hundreds of years; we’ve always been close to Russia,” said another resident. “The Ossetians behaved like dogs, but if Russia is our friend, then the Ossetians will be our friends, too.”

There were more nods of agreement. “We are just simple people, we are peasants,” rejoined Mr Goguashvili. “Perhaps all the intellectuals in Tbilisi who want to be with America are far cleverer than us; perhaps they understand the world better than we do. But we are the ones left here who have to live with this,” he said, with a mournful gesture towards the wreckage behind him.


From http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...li-911778.html

[Armenian]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

"Please tell everyone in Russia, in the world, that we want to be with Russia, we don’t want Saakashvili. He has brought us nothing but trouble,” implored Karaman Goguashvili, 77. “We don’t need Nato, we don’t need America, we need to be friends with Russia.”

I think this Goguashvili character should be elected the next president of Georgia.

[North Pole]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

South Ossetians wave the flags of Russia (R) and South Ossetia on August 25, 2008 while riding in cars 35 km from Tskhinvali near the village of Dzhava. The Russian parliament voted Monday to recognise two breakaway Georgian regions as independent nations and Moscow toughened its line on the West as the United States said Vice President xxxx Cheney would visit Georgia.

South Ossetians wave the flags of Russia (R) and South Ossetia while riding in cars some 35 km form Tskhinvali near the village pf Dzhava on August 25, 2008. The Russian parliament voted today to recognise two breakaway Georgian regions as independent nations and Moscow toughened its line on the West as the United States said Vice President xxxx Cheney would visit Georgia.

South Ossetians wave the flags of Russia (L) and South Ossetia while riding in cars 35 km from Tskhinvali near the village of Dzhava on August 25, 2008. The Russian parliament voted today to recognise two breakaway Georgian regions as independent nations and Moscow toughened its line on the West as the United States said Vice President xxxx Cheney would visit Georgia.