America's Financial Crisis

[yerazhishda]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

My portfolio is down by 1/3 from it's high (which was about one year ago)...that's BAD.

I'd be curious to find out how any of you are fairing/

As of 10/9...

BMY -$1688
FRE -$3700
MSFT -$898
GOOG -$697
PFE -$1032
AIG -$10558 ()

Of course this all at wallstreetsurvivor.com...so no worries.

[crusader1492]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

My portfolio is down by 1/3 from it's high (which was about one year ago)...that's BAD.

I'd be curious to find out how any of you are fairing/

[Azad]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Another 700 points lost today.
The feds bailed out the thieves and they were having a party.

" WASHINGTON -- Less than a week after the federal government had to bail out American International Group Inc., the company sent executives on a $440,000 retreat to a posh California resort, lawmakers investigating the company's meltdown said Tuesday.

The tab included $23,380 worth of spa treatments for AIG employees at the coastal St. Regis resort south of Los Angeles even as the company tapped into an $85 billion loan from the government it needed to stave off bankruptcy."

http://newsok.com/aig-execs-retreat-after-bailout-angers-lawmakers/article/3308574

Never in my life have I seen more fcked up people.

[gmd]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

"America is bankrupt. How are these stupid candidates going to pay for all their programs they intend? These dumb voters never even think about these things, or how they were able to pass the bail out had it not been for the fact that they had to raise the cap on the national debt limit."

to use the drug addict analogy,
we need to hit rock bottom before we can recover.
based on that i recommend voting for the candidate that will squander the most money in the shortest period of time.

[gmd]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Perhaps that is true. But at least the US still has those 3 things to fall back on once the "money bubble" evaporates. It is still one the top exporters in the world (if not the top) so if the rest of the world starts doing "better" than before, that will only help the US

Problem may be that since this is all just a high-stakes confidence game. If enough people see the US as a con-artist then the cost of doing business will erode any significant gains. I think if the US is to recover post a major recession/depression then it will be by turning back on globalization. (I am aware of how that type of thinking contributed to the 1st depression; i am talking about a recovery phase). Starting with the vast sums spent on military bases around the world and on an overwhelming offensive "defense" force.

[yerazhishda]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Close at 8,579 (-679) points today. I agree with gmd, the decline of the American Empire may come sooner rather than later.

[gmd]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Thanks Armenian, I was interested in your take on my question. I do have my own opinion on this matter. I moved out to the country over 4 yrs ago. I drive 80 miles to work but my family is relatively safe. I grew up in this country and my view is that the silent majority does not understand nor accept the system that exists because it is not only flawed but obviously full of deception. Enough people have gone along for the ride in the last couple of decades because they fooled themselves into thinking that the cheap crap they were buying was a status of wealth, instead of realizing that the debt was a form of slavery. I think there will be a type of die off. I thought we had more time but it may be coming sooner then later. Most people will be unaware due to denial and this will prevent them from adjusting to the new dynamic in a way that will allow them to survive and eventuly prosper. Don't take what I say as the rantings of a survivalist nut. There is still a grain of truth in it. (that is for anyone reading this post not just you).

[Sip]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Americans have been living comfortably during the past several decades not because the US is a great industrial power, nor is it because the US controls vast amounts of natural resources, nor is it because the US has a great work force.

Perhaps that is true. But at least the US still has those 3 things to fall back on once the "money bubble" evaporates. It is still one the top exporters in the world (if not the top) so if the rest of the world starts doing "better" than before, that will only help the US

[Anonymouse]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

The American Empire is officially on the decline. Look to the rise of the East to try to bear the brunt of this century's woes.

America is a prime example of what happens when you become infested with greed, corruption, enervation of youth and a culture of entitlement, excess and empire. It is a self-absorbed nation that has completely distanced itself from the supposed ideals it was founded on.

The funniest thing in all this is these dumb voters who will be voting for the two candidates who are essentially the different sides of the same coin. Republicans borrow and spend, and Democrats tax and spend. Both favor endless spending on worthless programs and entitlements and the continuation of the unjust and unethical wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the continued presence of American military bases around the world. These cost billions and trillions of dollars that America does not have. America is bankrupt. How are these stupid candidates going to pay for all their programs they intend? These dumb voters never even think about these things, or how they were able to pass the bail out had it not been for the fact that they had to raise the cap on the national debt limit.

Oh well, unfortunately, history is cyclical.

[Armenian]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

So, what is your assesment of things to come? More importantly what do you think should be done? I ask these things because my own assesment is that a US economic collapse has obvious dire consequences for the rest of the world and an eventual recovery, depending on the political/economic reforms inacted, may benefit the US more then other regions of the world.

Had I known the answers to your questions I would be siting next to the president of the United States and not in my home conversing with you. I can only give you my layman's assessment of the overall situation, naturally based on what I see and what I read - and my keen sense

Americans have been living comfortably not because the US is a great industrial power, not because the US controls vast amounts of natural resources, nor is it because the US has a great work force, Americans have been living comfortably because of the hundreds of billions of dollars being pumped into the US economy by foreign entities like China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Japan and western Europe, and the trillions of dollars, virtually created out of thin air, being poured into the US economy by the Federal Reserve. This situation has been more-or-less keeping the nation afloat. However, this situation also has drastic side effects like inflation, a financial bubble and worst of all, a false sense of security. The US dollar has become in reality a worthless piece of paper. The US dollar's perceived worth/strenght is simply tied to the geopolitical status quo of the world, in which the US has been the supreme power for many years. With all this free money being pumped into the US economy during the past several decades the US has in essence become primarily a service oriented economy and the world's primere consumer of commodities. As a result of this, the US become the economic center of gravity around which most nations on earth revolved. What's more, the American military and/or American culture has successfully invaded virtually all nations on earth, thereby further making the rest of the world desperately dependent on the US.

Therefore, you are right in that the US is an economic gargantuan who's fall may pull many other nations down with it. Closer a nation is to the US center of gravity the more vulnerable it may be if and when the US suffers a total economic collaspe. As a result, we have major foreign powers looking to make sure this does not happen. Can it be done? The US is like a junkie that is being administered a steady dose of narcotics to help it stay calm and not hurt anyone. It's like a potentially destructive giant on dialysis and under constant watch. How long will this situation last? Your guess to these questions are as good as mine. Nevertheless, the more you seriously look into the problems the US is facing today the more you will realize that not much can be done to retard its inevitable decline, other than selling the nation to the highest bidder - which may actually be happening as we speak. The US is facing longterm and profound problems. Don't be surprised if talk about the North American Union gains momentum as a result of the current economic crisis. The North American Union, combining Mexico and Canada to the US may be one way to remedy America's longterm problems.

Regarding the lasting effect on other nation: In my opinion, nations like India, Russia, China, Japan, Germany will be able to recover due to their powerful industry as in the case of China; innovative and technically capable work force as in the case of Japan and Germany; and the control and distribution of natural resources as in the case of Russia. While the whole US economy falters the only serious problem the aforementioned nations will have is in their stock markets and perhaps their exports, most of which is consumed by the US and western Europe. The world economy will suffer greatly, some may hurt more than the US, but others are poised today to takeover control of whatever the US leaves behind.

Further perspective: At the turn of the 20th century the world faced a multipolar political reality where major nations like France, United States, Austria, Germany, Japan, Russian Empire, British Empire, Ottoman Empire often competed against one another - without a single entity being all powerful. This geopolitical diversity was somewhat abated with the results of the First World War. Some years later, Germany's and Japan's defeat created in essence a bipolar world at the end of the Second World War. Consequently, during the Cold War, we had the Soviet Union on one side and the Western world (led by the US) on the other. Since the sudden collapse of the Soviet Union, its been a unipolar world, a world where the US has been the undisputed military, economic, political and cultural superpower. The US is proving today that being on the top may indeed be a lonely and risky place. The political entity known as the US is so large, so powerful, so intertwined with the global economy that nations worldwide are afraid of its fall. But how long can the US survive on top being administered by lesser nations below?

Historical note: The British Empire faced a similar situation the US is in today at the turn of the last century. The Empire was overextended, its population overly complacent and its economy seriously lagged behind in various sectors. What did the British do? They essentially handed over their vast empire to the United States (along with its inherent flaws) and they drastically downsized. This is essentially why there still is a nation called Britain today. Had they been stubborn, arrogant and shortsighted they would have simply disappeared into the pages of history as a result of the two world wars.

So, in my opinion, what should be done? The financial/political elite in this country should give up the empire, tighten its belt and drastically downsize. Will they do so? Knowing Washington well, I would not hold my breath.

Anyway, I'm no expert, I suggest you read many of the good essays/articles found in this thread and derive your own conclusion.