Pentagon Attack on 911

[Sip]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Essentially, they have become the handjob of corporations and government that want to blend all kinds sludge together in order to make sure the state functions. All this at the expense of displacing foreigners and destroying their authonomy (i.e. setting up puppet governments, making sure the resources flow to the west, and reconstructing the basic functions in the image of the west, the final point is employed to make sure the contracts are provided by American firms, they want to make the last marginal profit on the blood foreigners. As a American, I am ashamed and, I am, essentially, a by product of these actions, Iranian authonomy was undermined and it got to the point where they had to resort to fanitical measures to oust western influences, sad, a people like the Persians, so use to culture and civlity, reduced to a bunch of religious zealots because the west refused to allow the Iranians to shape their own destiny.). The "Siphan type" have forgotten the ruthless actions carried out by the United States towards the Middle-East, he has forgotten about Operation Ajax, people quickly forget and history, thus, will always repeat itself. Again, the naive deserve to be used.

May I dare to ask what exactly is it that I have said that makes you to jump to these amazing conclusions about my beliefs? What exactly do you think I have "forgotten" about US actions in the Middle East? May I remind you that I have spent about 1/2 my life IN THE FREAKING Middle East? Do you really think I am blind to how the US has helped shape the Middle East?

And what exactly is a "handjob of corporations and government" and why do you think I am such a handjob? Is it because I said Al Qaeda carried out 9/11?

[Virgil]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

May I dare to ask what exactly is it that I have said that makes you to jump to these amazing conclusions about my beliefs? What exactly do you think I have "forgotten" about US actions in the Middle East? May I remind you that I have spent about 1/2 my life IN THE FREAKING Middle East? Do you really think I am blind to how the US has helped shape the Middle East?

And what exactly is a "handjob of corporations and government" and why do you think I am such a handjob? Is it because I said Al Qaeda carried out 9/11?

And that is what is mind boggling about you, you are a enigma, your thought process is alien to me. In the same thread, you are for two different sets of beliefs? What are your beleifs? For one, your displacement, your parents displacement, all this bullxxxx Armenians have had to endure stems from the bestial consumer cravings of the American public. They held Iran hostage for most of the 20th century, until the people, the bottom of the barrel, the uneducated, had enough and ousted them. Do you think any Iranian-Armenian wanted to leave Iran? The United States government, in attempt to monopolize the natural resources of the world, destroyed lives. Yes, they did not kill, they did not mame, and certainly, they did not directly injure anyone in the name of "democracy", however, what they did do is make sure that Iranian money flowed into the treasure chests of American corporations. Essentially, it was a sophisticated method of imperialism, they replaced any politician that was for the authonomy of the Iranian people. In the process, they increased the domestic tensions and eventually, these tensions set off the revolution, which then forced every Armenian to sell their homes at rock bottom prices, take their wealth to the United States, lose it, and then become a nobody. We lost a entire generation of Armenians because of this displacement and you here are sitting on your high horse and supporting this kind of barbarity.

The reality is this, if you choose to accept it or not, every despot and dictator of the Middle-East is a by-product of the United States and has roots in the United States obsession with the the Middle-East. Ever since the European powers have set foot in the Middle-East, the Middle-East has become a warzone. And it only takes a rational mind to unravel the message behind Osama, my former political science professor (Armenian by extraction), summarized it best, essentially, paraphrasing him, how can you blame the Middle-Eastern citizens for their hate when we have elected leaders for them that are, for the most part, corrupt, petty, and selfish? You can't, the American foreign policy of exporting "democracy" in a failed effort to accelerate the development of market of system and western style economies attacks the very heart of what this great nation, the United States, was built upon. You are essentially trying to artificially control the market and the market share. The Arabs are not stupid, why should they sell their oil to us when the pipelines to Europe and China via Russia have already been established? They should not, any half witted and semi-educated individual can see that their clearly exists a attempt to artifically control the flow resources in such a way where it maximazes the profit margins in favor of American corporations and this attacks the very idea of a "market system".

And what does Osama want? His demands are simple, "leave the Middle-Eastern politics to the Middle-East", stop backing corrupt, petty, and selflish leaders that are first, loyal to foreign entities, second, to their wallet, and third, the people they are supposed to represent. And how the hell can you, a computer programmer, possibly be against such a obviously logical request? Would you like Osama and his band of terrorists to elect your leaders? To pick your people's destiny? To decide your future? No, I don't think so, but this is what the United States has done in the Middle-East. In fact, the idea of a "Middle-East" is in itself a fabricated term thought up by the British. Prior to colonialism, there existed no concept of "nationalism", a Arab, was a Arab, however, they seperated them into fabricated states, grouping hostile factions together. Fast forward a 100 years and we have the powder keg known as Iraq.

[Sip]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Vigil, I agree with most of what you have said about US foreign policy with respect to the middle east. I don't understand why you think I am somehow here to argue those points. What have I said that makes you say all these things about how the US has been influencing the middle east etc. So far, you seem to be making an effort to justify the Al Qaeda 9/11 attacks. I will not argue that they may have been quite justified to attack this enemy (the US)! At the same time, what you forget to mention is that Osama himself was US installed PUPPET in Afghanistan to block the communists.

I don't know about the rest of the Iranian Armenians but I am certainly very very glad we left Iran.

About oil, Arabs, and US ... is there ANYONE in the world that doesn't already know what you have said very well?

You ask me what my beliefs are .. and I think I have stated them fairly clearly in this thread about the 9/11 events. I don't believe it is healthy to get too carried away with conspiracy theories, "who done it", and "who knew" ... my beliefs are that even though about a million possibilities are plausible when it comes to 9/11, we should NOT lose sight of the basic premise that several Al Qaeda operatives hijacked some planes and smashed them into some buildings while the US "government" was caught completely unprepared for such a thing.

Also, I do NOT think of the "US government" as a single, well established, ultra smart, carefully planning entity. The "US government" is an extremely complex, highly inefficient, very dynamic, and at times very disorganized type of animal. Therefore, I am much more likely to dismiss random claims that "the US government" did this or that as anyone who gets to know the "US gevernment" in depth realizes that the reality of things is far far faaaaaaaaaar more complex than anyone can imagine. There are a number of competing forces at play and at any given time, any one of them may or may not be able to pursue it's agenda.

And MOST importantly, I will categorically deny any claim that "Bush" was behind 9/11. I am not saying anyone here is saying that but there are many out there that do. I am just using it as an example here.

[Sip]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

I'll give this a shot to see if it's possible to have a serious discussion with you. "The reality" -- where did you get this alleged reality?

From tapes of Osama proudly claiming victory for what they did.

[skhara]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

From tapes of Osama proudly claiming victory for what they did.

Can you refer me to such a tape? Such a thing must be all over the internet if Ossama proudly declared this.

[Sip]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

I don't understand .. are you trying to say Al Qaeda didn't take responsibility for the attacks?

[skhara]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

I don't understand .. are you trying to say Al Qaeda didn't take responsibility for the attacks?

I remember watching ABC news just a couple of days after 9/11 where the newscaster read what was claimed a direct quote from Bin Laden. The quote was a categoric denial Bin Laden where he claimed that: "his hosts (the Taleban) do not allow him to engage in such activities". And he added that that whoever carried out the attacks did so for their own interests.

The only "confession" tape I do remember was some fat Arab on TV alleged to be Bin Laden "confessing".

Ever since then, there have been various "confession" tapes coming out.

[Sip]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Skhara, unfortunately I am unable to look for any videos right now but maybe this article will do?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

I am guessing the video itself will not be hard to find.

[skhara]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Here we go this is what I remember:

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

[skhara]

Re: Pentagon Attack on 911

Skhara, unfortunately I am unable to look for any videos right now but maybe this article will do?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

I am guessing the video itself will not be hard to find.

They are actually talking about the Arab santa claus and here is the shot from that video:



By the way, did you know that the FBI declared Bin Laden as not wanted for 9/11.


I don't really know exactly how Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden is tied with the US government -- you can claim conspiracy theories and speculations in that regard -- and since we don't have concrete answers, we have to speculate when it comes to that. I am convinced though (just as I'm convinced the earth is round ) that the WTC building fell because of controlled demolition. It simply baffles my mind when seemingly intelligent people put self imposed blocks on themselves.