What religion are you?

[Sako]

Re: What religion are you?

Yes, your words did have meaning to me, I decided to read your last post more carefully this time and it was much easier I guess because we're not trying to argue anymore. I appreciate this and thank you.

Just trying my best, bro, just trying my best, glad we’re finally on a different level of conversation. See? I told you, nothing happens without a reason. We argued but it led us to something better, at least it is to me, I’ll talk only about myself but I’m sure you feel the same from your words. I appreciate it too.

So, since I don't know your particular beliefs or what you make of your path, why don't you make it explicit by sharing? I'd like to know what beliefs someone like you holds close to their heart.

Well, first of all, please don’t say “someone like you”, I’m not really that special or anything and I don’t consider myself “above” anyone on this forum or in the world really. I’m just a ripple in the ocean, plainly speaking. Going back to your question, J, I’ll tell you about me soon enough although I think I’ll work on understanding your views right now since we started already and then I’ll start a new topic because I know my story will do just that.

In my case, I think part of my problem with finding a particular religion I find comfort in is that so many of them have create ideas and morals, however, it is not a question of which religion has better ones but instead, how well an individual can interpret those ideas to bring about a happy transformation in their lives, which will consequently end up being shared with the people around them.

Going back to religion, I ask that you read everything I say, looking at everything in different ways and not taking anything personally, my friend. That way we’ll definitely understand much more. I take it you haven’t really seriously gone through any religion so let’s accept that fact and let’s not mock religion in any way throughout the duration of this discussion otherwise it will make things more complicated. Let’s try and look out of the box whether we believe in God or not and not ask the stupid question whether God exists or not, it’s a childish argument and in the end nothing changes anyways.

My first answer to your question is that religion is a learning institution, like I said before and in school, you don’t always do what you like but what you are supposed to and in the end you understand why you had to go through it all. In your paragraph, you still didn’t say why you don’t like religion as a whole or a particular one which you should because you said that a nice religion to you must bring a happy transformation, etc. Moving on, when I went to art class, I used to draw circles and squares and I never understood why or how these shapes could turn into a beautiful painting or figure but they did in the end and I understood, never asking that question again. Religion is not something created by man and even if it was, it is on a much higher plain materially and spiritually for the simple fact that it has a very powerful impact on our lives and it changes people and this world. Religion is not the same school you go to, it is very different. There, you get the experience and then the lessons in many cases. Religion is just like life and not everything in life is sweet but when you understand that whatever happens, happens so that you can learn something and because you are moving forward instead of going back. You can’t sit down and move forward without endeavor.

That’s why, my second answer is that when you look at spirituality or religion, don’t consider your senses or your skin first. Happiness comes from endeavor, it doesn’t grow on trees, and endeavor comes from understanding, which in turn comes from your mind and heart. Religion doesn’t open your mind; it opens your heart first which is the most difficult process in life. If your heart is not open, your mind never will be and it will be your worst enemy, confusing you and taking you away from the light.

My third answer is as follows. When you say “finding a particular religion”, I want you to understand the meaning of religion first. In school, you learn math but you can learn the same math in any other school just maybe in a slightly different way with slightly different teachers, at a slower or faster pace, but the goal is still the same. You know why there are different religions? What the point of that grand plan is? Because there are so many different people in the world with different views, with different problems, with different limitations, etc. The goal of religion is not to make you see God or something, it’s to prepare you. If you pass 3rd grade, you still have a long way to go, bro, you aren’t there yet. Just something I would like to point out real quick is that statistics show that believers in God seem to live much more peaceful, happy lives then those that don’t. I have even compared two different people I knew with different views and the difference was incredible. The one that didn’t believe in God seemed completely lost and unhappy; making everyone else unhappy while the believer was a completely different story (I’m not saying all are happy or unhappy). So, even if religion was created by man, lol, I am grateful eternally to that man. In this case, we should take into account NOT where or how Religion was created but what impact it has on our lives for the simple fact that NO ONE can prove religion was created by man or God doesn’t exist. Religion has the power to change the world and it is so let’s not laugh at religion as if some idiot created it or it was a mistake and everyone just suddenly people began to follow it like morons. It has always been there.

My point, going back to my original view (don’t think about your skin first) is that don’t look for a religion with the thought of finding one that will fit into your schedule, YOU have to fit into religion, not the other way around because there is good and bad everywhere BUT remember, religion is never mistaken, its followers are. In school, the school teaches perfectly but the students and/or teachers make it a good famous school or an infamous school. NEVERTHELESS, you should respect all religions and go with the religion you feel very close to and feel you can understand better or feel closer to God or to your own heart. You aren’t at school because of the students, you are there to learn. There is no ONE RIGHT PATH in this world and I hate it when preachers try to prove other religions wrong and that their religion is the very best or even worse, is the only right path. When there weren’t the religions we know now, people still believed in God, they didn’t live in emptiness until preachers appeared. They have always been around too though and I don’t have anything against them. They sometimes go too far though. Last but not least, do anything you do with your heart and not with force but sometimes you have to control yourself and try hard. Religion is not a very easy task and people shy away. Endeavor and understanding spells and equals sacrifice. Be prepared although don’t be afraid, it’s not a daunting task. People spend so much more energy on material activities but are afraid to follow simple guidelines that take away almost only 5-10% of the energy spent overall. Man complicates things too much sometimes. Let’s not make religion comfortable for us but get comfortable with a religion. Many Christians out there don’t follow half of what Jesus say’s, those people manipulate the religion instead of working on themselves for the religion.

You could say that I am interested in every religious practice (discerning what underlying messages it and its followers have to teach which lead to happiness)

You basically say that you go to school but don’t accept the teacher’s words. I don’t know what religion you’re talking about or why you do this but it’s not particularly wrong but it’s a way of making a religion more comforting for you which is not exactly right but is right in its own way. I would like you to answer this dilemma in detail and with examples.

Unless I forget this understanding which seems to occur in debates in which I argue agnostic points of view, usually started because of debates about God existing or not

You just have to remember that neither you nor the opposing team can say God doesn’t exist. Many can say he does though which is where you start to think. Religion is not a light subject and no one can simply throw it in the dustbin. Deep down, they still feel like something isn’t right with their doubts. Many people have proven much already for believers to not lose all hope in believing God exists and religion in itself has provided LOT’S of proof so its not like there are no sources of proof like atheists and agnostics like to think.

which I continue to find to be wasteful activities because the endeavor of trying to proving such a thing has no place in one's feeling God in their lives.

I’m still trying to understand this point so please elaborate so I can see what we’re talking about here. Overall, I get it but a detailed explanation would be great.

I would like to clarify something about pointlessness however. First, I will ask you a compound question, have you heard of Zen and if so, what do you know about it?

Yeah, I’ve heard of it, nice question. It’s a type of yoga but most importantly it is an impersonalist approach to God. It has a great connection to India more then anywhere else and it more or less was born from there. I haven’t gone very deep into it although I’ve read about it. It doesn’t worship a particular God but instead it sort of says that you are God. It is pretty much completely experimental and many things can’t be explained, even the religion can’t be explained at times. It’s not confusing just unnecessarily complicated and is Yoga, just another form. The word "Zen" is Japanese for a style of Buddhism. From the start I knew you were following Zen or the like because your views had a lot to do with impersonalism but the problem with impersonalism is that it is difficult to understand and it mainly comes from your mind, demoralizes a lot, and makes you get to the top the difficult way. Many times, it isn’t difficult to understand but it nonetheless has many un-understandable areas. Its like instead of going to school, you sit at home and meditate, trying to understand everything with your mind. This religion was created, there is solid proof if I’m not mistaken and if you compare this religion to say Christianity and or most other religions, the others seem more solid, easier, and more comforting, but most importantly, you don’t have to trouble your mind too much because the books teach you what you must search for through meditation. Doing something complicated instead of the simple doesn’t always mean you are getting there faster and/or understand more. Many could follow Zen (I’m not talking about you) but they could simply believe in it because it’s a quick answer to their doubts and/or because it doesn’t make man look illiterate. You use your mind but not everything can be understood with the mind. This body wasn’t built to understand everything; it was built to prepare us for a much higher understanding. That is what impersonalists forget. The mind itself needs to be controlled before you can use it and the problem with Zen, that I see, is that every person gets his own understanding, following whatever he/she understands in the end. It is basically not so solid and when you look at it, it seems like it was created out of agitation towards other religions that believed in a solid God or figure. Its patriarchs even tore up other scriptures. It is confusing, basically, but isn’t wrong, it’s a path nonetheless, but it can take you back instead of forward if you aren’t careful on many occasions because you place yourself under the will of your mind most of the time. It is a way of clouding out many things. This is a perfect example of creating concepts because many times, you don’t LEARN the religion, you just simply meditate and try to experimentally understand. It’s not wrong, again, and I’m not against it but it is sort of pointless when there is so much to understand already, why take the rocky road? It comes from what type of person you are, in the end. Impersonalism is a branch of Buddhism you can say to some extent. Zen is a method of knowing yourself more then rather knowing God which is the first step but not the only step to understanding who we are and who God is anyways or why we are here. Zen doesn’t always answer that question.

Originally Posted by KarotheGreat
My religion is Hayastan, Armenia for the rest I just don't care about religion at all.

My religion is our history. Christianity is part of our history.

Well, Armenians originally worshiped the fire God (Agni, in Hindu scriptures) so does that make you a fire worshiper? I love Christianity, I love Jesus Christ, but in the end, your country should never be connected to your religion. It must come from your heart but yeah, I love my country, you can’t even imagine how much and I feel great knowing that my country was the first Christian country.

Why would anyone follow religion (which is man made rules)?
The diffrence between Christianity & all other religions is that Christianity is not a religion. It’s a personal relationship with you & Christ.

Stop saying the word “RELIGION” with so much malice and hate. Christianity is a religion and is very deep but believe it or not, many people from other religions think the same way you do about Christianity, saying it is just a man made set of rules or simply a religion. God is one and screw those that disrespect everyone in the world for going with different religions. They ruin this world more. As Christians, we need to remember what Jesus told us to, yet half of us never do. So enough with the shaking of the banners. Millions of people out there just hang a cross and think they understand what religion is. I’m tired already, enough. I get your point though Pepsi, I hope you got mine.

Religion is a behavioral rule for a society to function. For us Armenians to thrive we should base our religion on our OWN past experiences.

There are many that don’t function on religion so that’s another wrong statement. Religion is very different from everything, it feels and works very differently, I won’t even talk about the effects it has on the world.

[jgk3]

Re: What religion are you?

Saco, I'm glad you replied the way you did, unfortunately I don't know how to address all of your points.

I just want to say that I find many positives in Christian teachings, for example in the parable of the Prodigal Son (perhaps the most memorable one I know). I grew up learning about Christian religion due to my being baptized as Catholic and having to do first communion and confirmation.

I've always liked meeting people whom I could sense where very loving and relaxed, who identified themselves as part of a particular religion. I could sense that their religion is working for them to make them happy people. It is from these people, and rarely from my own readings of scriptures, where I find I gain the most insight on how one could think happily and help make way for a happier existence. It does not matter if this person is Christian, Muslim, xxxish, Buddhist, etc... As you said, these are all just schools, different paths where the lessons may be different, the teachers may be different, but the wisdom that a diligent and keen student seeking to find happiness (and not arrogance) with their lives will get out of each of them, is the same.

I personally find the ideas and approaches from different religions and practices handy here and there, but my core approach to living is not bound by any such religion. If I had a religion, I would call it "open". I agree with you that theistic concepts make meditation on certain morals far more accessible than what zen meditation could do, I take great joy in thinking about the implications of parables such as that of the Prodigal Son because I love the concept of forgiveness, for accepting the nature and cycle of things. I see these things in Christianity. Many Christians I know emphasize the label of Christianity, the identity of Christianity. When I explain the implications of the teachings on forgiveness to these people, it feels like I'm being a teacher to them and not a colleague. To many (even me at times), Christianity, like any religion, seems more apparent as a community identity bound by a common ethos or pathos which its members must always pay homage to. In my life, I haven't been very ardent in participating in "school" (in the sense of referring to religion which you emphasize), though I recognize its importance for a community.

I understand the importance of this by recalling how important my attendance and embracing of identity has been towards my music lessons, which I've been pursuing for 12-13 years now, and my martial arts. In the former, my community is between me, my teacher, and all the other students which I am an archetype student for at this point as I'm the eldest and most advanced out of them all (though I wasn't always). In kung fu, I share a love for training and pushing my mental, physical and spiritual boundaries with the other students and our teacher. These as things we share in common and work together for. Consequently, we draw a shared sense of identity out of them.

Other than this, I have read up quite a bit on Buddhist philosophy through the Dalai Lama's books, and I've looked into Zen a fair bit, especially it's fiercely practical elements as made popular by Alan Watts. I find Zen helpful because I tune in to low context thinking, the chatter inside my head becomes quiet or less pronounced. I feel a boost in my creativity, I feel like I've been giving a chance in perceiving aspects of existence that I have routinely overlooked in the past. Applying Zen to activities in life amplifies the openness and zero sum-ness of these endeavors. I find this very useful: I draw pleasures and appreciations which I was too distracted to notice beforehand. I feel re-sensitized towards all the things that are worth waking up and walking around for, to all the opportunities that have been opened up to me since I was a kid.

I have all this to work with during my life, both daily and in its seamless entirety, though through my philosophy of being "open", I allow any individual, any manifestation of nature, any game I play, any aspect of my studies at school, any random scientific book I pick up from my library, to put forth something for me from which I can learn a lesson. It is the feeling of looking into a mirror which reveals you something far more precious about yourself than the standard reflection of your appearance.

When I think of this, I feel less interested in trying to prove myself to others, or to prove any of my ideas or concepts as "real" or "true". Everything is already, simply put, "there", and without your effort, it is moving.

I hope this helps you understand what philosophies I'm used to these days.

[Sako]

Re: What religion are you?

Saco, I'm glad you replied the way you did, unfortunately I don't know how to address all of your points.

Haha, I’m glad you replied. I thought you bailed on me, bro. And don't worry, real understanding, to some extent, comes from not being able to reply but what I said is very simple so I'm sure you understood everything but simply have some personal questions, that is the step forward already.

I just want to say that I find many positives in Christian teachings, for example in the parable of the Prodigal Son (perhaps the most memorable one I know). I grew up learning about Christian religion due to my being baptized as Catholic and having to do first communion and confirmation.

Well, I don’t know why this seems like a story to you rather then a piece of history and something pretty solid. It wasn’t just written up and there are unbelievably large amounts of proof. But let’s not dwell into that issue at the moment. I just don’t want you thinking that religions are all stories otherwise you are close if not completely un-different from an atheist. Also, Christianity isn't as simple as people like to think of it. In the end, Jesus said, "There is so much I still have to tell you but you aren't ready yet". There are different people in the world and different religions. Some follow religions that are easier for them while others follow more difficult religions because their capabilities are different. God has given us so many paths to reaching him and none of them are wrong, just some are faster and some are slower.

I've always liked meeting people whom I could sense were very loving and relaxed, who identified themselves as part of a particular religion. I could sense that their religion is working for them to make them happy people. It is from these people, and rarely from my own readings of scriptures, where I find I gain the most insight on how one could think happily and help make way for a happier existence.

An honest and proper reply, yes that is a big part of religion and what you should feel if you are close to a religion. I simply want you to ask yourself, where does the rest of the community get its happiness and motivation from? Going to church on Sundays and all isn’t a community barbeque where everyone feels happy. People see the point of going to church, they feel the presence of the Son of God, they pray with their hearts, etc. They don’t look at their surroundings all the time. There are church’s where very few Christians ever go on Sundays but it is those few that are the happiest, that show faith, that show love, and no one ever understands how they feel or even who they are when they enter church. I want you to understand what happiness is at its core and what you are actually feeling, if you understand what I mean.

It does not matter if this person is Christian, Muslim, xxxish, Buddhist, etc... As you said, these are all just schools, different paths where the lessons may be different, the teachers may be different, but the wisdom that a diligent and keen student seeking to find happiness (and not arrogance) with their lives will get out of each of them, is the same.

YES, you got my point, but you forget one minor detail. The student doesn’t search for only happiness, he searches for knowledge. Happiness can be found in many places, in strip clubs, in the Ball Park, etc. but what is the difference between religious happiness and material happiness? Religious happiness is not actually happiness but rather understanding. Knowledge is the light, that’s what I’ve been trying to say. And one should not think about happiness before thinking of entering a religious place. It happens automatically when you are in it or believe and have faith.

When I enter any religious institution, and I’ve seen and been to many, I feel like I remember my religion much more every time. After so much, I see such a huge resemblance between religions that they almost shout out, “WE ARE THE SAME”. I feel right where I’m supposed to be no matter where I go but this isn’t happiness alone or simply material feelings, it is the understanding that has made me so happy and the people around me. I have friends from so many religions, you’d be surprised, and we talk as if we were from the very same religion. That’s why, when I talk to you or other people, I feel how they become protective and I grin because that barrier is broken soon enough and we understand each other better in the end. That’s why it’s like I know who I’m talking with from the start, I know what’s going on and I already know what’s going to happen in the end; you’re not the first and definitely not the last, at least I hope not. I don’t feel bad talking to you, on the contrary. Religion is what you must feel proud of if you have one, not the other way around and no one can change that. The point of religion is deeper then that but is so simple. Any religion that makes you feel malice or hate towards any other religion or people is downright wrong. In the end of the day, we begin talking like we are now from the same religion and we all understand much more because that barrier is broken. That is where understanding begins after all the crappy discussions are kept to a side.

I personally find the ideas and approaches from different religions and practices handy here and there, but my core approach to living is not bound by any such religion. If I had a religion, I would call it "open". I agree with you that theistic concepts make meditation on certain morals far more accessible than what zen meditation could do, I take great joy in thinking about the implications of parables such as that of the Prodigal Son because I love the concept of forgiveness, for accepting the nature and cycle of things. I see these things in Christianity. Many Christians I know emphasize the label of Christianity, the identity of Christianity. When I explain the implications of the teachings on forgiveness to these people, it feels like I'm being a teacher to them and not a colleague. To many (even me at times), Christianity, like any religion, seems more apparent as a community identity bound by a common ethos or pathos which its members must always pay homage to. In my life, I haven't been very ardent in participating in "school" (in the sense of referring to religion which you emphasize), though I recognize its importance for a community.

You haven’t but you are even as we speak. Zen is a school, none the less. Just like if I paint, I become an artist, people call me that whether I’m good or bad at it. I might not be learning in an institution but I’m an artist nonetheless because of my actions. In the same way, you follow a certain line although you say you haven’t been inclined to. People call Zen a parable just like you call Christianity a parable so I think we should stop using that word, it complicates things. I don’t really think you recognize the importance of a religion or “school”. It helps the community but most importantly, it helps you. Not being ardent is your choice but if you do it, you shouldn’t do it only by looking at the community. The point of religion is lost. People don’t always understand that.

I understand the importance of this by recalling how important my attendance and embracing of identity has been towards my music lessons, which I've been pursuing for 12-13 years now, and my martial arts. In the former, my community is between me, my teacher, and all the other students which I am an archetype student for at this point as I'm the eldest and most advanced out of them all (though I wasn't always). In kung fu, I share a love for training and pushing my mental, physical and spiritual boundaries with the other students and our teacher. These as things we share in common and work together for. Consequently, we draw a shared sense of identity out of them.

I’m very proud that you could do all that and I’m very happy. Many people should learn to have some of your perseverance. But you should not forget that all you did was material. Doing all that is simply a preparation for something much more difficult. It gives you mind control, peace of mind, etc. but it can’t take you all the way. You pass first grade but don’t want to go to second or third grade, thinking what you know is enough. You don’t see the difference between a material and spiritual action because you don’t seem to understand what spiritualism is in its core. It isn’t a materialistic action in it’s self. I want you to understand that difference.

Other than this, I have read up quite a bit on Buddhist philosophy through the Dalai Lama's books, and I've looked into Zen a fair bit, especially it's fiercely practical elements as made popular by Alan Watts. I find Zen helpful because I tune in to low context thinking, the chatter inside my head becomes quiet or less pronounced. I feel a boost in my creativity, I feel like I've been giving a chance in perceiving aspects of existence that I have routinely overlooked in the past. Applying Zen to activities in life amplifies the openness and zero sum-ness of these endeavors. I find this very useful: I draw pleasures and appreciations which I was too distracted to notice beforehand. I feel re-sensitized towards all the things that are worth waking up and walking around for, to all the opportunities that have been opened up to me since I was a kid.

Good, this is a great step forward but there are many still left, for all of us, not just you. This is where I ask you, why do you apply Zen to your life? Not how but why? Why not apply some other religion and I’m not afraid to say more practical religion although people have a lot to learn from Zen and many other religions. I’m not against anything, that’s what I’m saying. What you are doing is wrong in the sense that you accept what you want and throw out the rest. There are so many great religions that could cater to your understanding maybe even much better then Zen. It’s your choice though bro. You have to do something with your heart not your mind alone. At the moment you don’t exactly follow anything, it’s like you take little bits of everything and put them together, making your own religion. This will confuse you more. It’s not bad, just confusing and it turns off your mind some how. Zen is kind of like a method to close your eyes and ears on the world and simply believe in yourself and be happy. It doesn’t take you through much for you to understand much. It doesn’t open your eyes; it just gives you some sort of artificial happiness that is understandable. It gives you freewill to do as you like. That is what is not always right. Everyone in Zen understands what they want to understand in some way, there aren’t really many things that everyone can understand as a whole. There are no principles. This is the easy path but much, much longer path. Easy isn’t always good. The problem with Zen is you don’t see a difference in many fields such as spiritualism, materialism, etc. There is no balance in Zen. That is why it can be very confusing to you, especially when you try to understand something more practical. It clouds you somehow but it isn’t wrong. This thread isn’t supposed to be revolving wrong or right, that’s why everything was so messed up.

I have all this to work with during my life, both daily and in its seamless entirety, though through my philosophy of being "open", I allow any individual, any manifestation of nature, any game I play, any aspect of my studies at school, any random scientific book I pick up from my library, to put forth something for me from which I can learn a lesson. It is the feeling of looking into a mirror which reveals you something far more precious about yourself than the standard reflection of your appearance.

You are the bumblebee from my example, I’m glad you understood me. I just want you to understand where you are wrong, we all make some mistakes, am I right? I’m not saying this in a critical way; it’s just an easy mistake that is being made a lot. You learn lessons, but you understand what you want to understand rather the understanding the entire book or point of that lesson. Simply put, you don’t go deep into any religion but rather just accept a few lessons that anyone could pretty much understand and jump to the next religion or lesson. This leads me to ask why you are afraid to dwell deeper. No one is going to murder or burn you for following a religion, this isn’t the 1400’s, lol. You learn how to add but not subtract or multiply and divide. Many do this and it isn’t because they see something wrong in a religion but simply because they don’t want to do so and don’t want to spend their time. Religion has become a third or fourth priority. That’s why many don’t understand religion or what it is and claim that God doesn’t exist many times or say it is all lies. They haven’t even tried to understand and without eating the apple, you won’t understand how it tastes.

When I think of this, I feel less interested in trying to prove myself to others, or to prove any of my ideas or concepts as "real" or "true". Everything is already, simply put, "there", and without your effort, it is moving.

J, my entire point throughout this thread and its mistake is that we are constantly trying to prove ourselves and prove facts that could never be proven. The worst part is, we prove ourselves as if we are right and someone is wrong. That isn’t the point of religion and I hate it when people without a clue talk about religion like they’ve been learning for years. So many people follow a religion because their families or neighbors do, that is what’s wrong. You have to do it with your heart. When you do, then God makes you understand but those that don’t try to understand difficult math without understanding the basics never understand. Religion isn’t a game and isn’t something so simple although once you understand it, it is.

I hope this helps you understand what philosophies I'm used to these days.

And I hope you understand the basic principles I described that EVERYONE follows, not just religious people. I state the simple, there is no question of difficult thinking here. This is the basics and you understand much, you just don’t understand what Zen leads to or what to do next. You are right in many respects and no one can say you didn’t try or that you’re wrong, you just haven’t tried hard enough yet to understand much more. You are ready, you just have to take the step.
The journey will feed you, so what's keeping you? You haven’t even started your journey yet, you simply prepared for it and you are ready, don’t worry. You just somehow think that this is the end of it, not realizing that it’s just the beginning.

[member24]

Re: What religion are you?

I believe in a higher power, call it God, but I don't believe in the bible, adam and eve, and all the other fairytales. I don't think we were meant to know all the answeres that religious people seem to have. I truly believe that if you separated this world into two. One side of believers, and a side of non-believers/no religion, the side with no religion would be a lot more advanced, happier, successful...and of course more intelligent, because it takes intelligence to question, and not be brainwashed.

[Sako]

Re: What religion are you?

And what makes you think that believers are completely brainwashed? Or what belief are you talking about? If we broke the world into two parts, the nonbelievers would be advanced with enough problems to last them thousands of years without any solutions. Believers would also have their problems but they would still be in boundaries, non believers go with the "I do what I want when I want" moto (most at least) and that is their first mistake. You shouldn't judge everything on happiness or being advanced. You know how many believers advance this worlds science and technology or do you think all believers sit in their houses and pray from morning to night? Seriously, religion is being seen in a very wrong way and so is belief. You don't have to be praying all day or go to the mountains, etc. It's so simple yet people complicate it so much. faith, religion, etc. is like something that goes into your schedule, it's not yor entire schedule. Sheesh, whatever, do what you will ... just be proper people, period, and this world will be a better place. Without that, it's pointless being religious or anything else.

[gmd]

Re: What religion are you?

I read somewhere that people with high IQs are not religous. I think I am an exception to that rule; no faith and low IQ.

[Sako]

Re: What religion are you?

Well I know many religious people that could blow people away with their IQ's so that rule is pretty much in the dust, lol.

[MrHyeSev]

Re: What religion are you?

I believe in a higher power, call it God, but I don't believe in the bible, adam and eve, and all the other fairytales. I don't think we were meant to know all the answeres that religious people seem to have. I truly believe that if you separated this world into two. One side of believers, and a side of non-believers/no religion, the side with no religion would be a lot more advanced, happier, successful...and of course more intelligent, because it takes intelligence to question, and not be brainwashed.

Have you given the Bible a chance to see if its true or not.
Well Ive said it before in this section that Christianity is not a religion, because (religion = man made rules) Christianity is a personal relationship with you & Christ.

Furthermore, Christians are brainwashed you are correct... our brians are washed from this secular world & we have a new fresh brain & heart so we can follow God.

[gmd]

Re: What religion are you?

Well I know many religious people that could blow people away with their IQ's so that rule is pretty much in the dust, lol.

The article was about religion and the scientific community. High IQ is relative to one's own IQ. Not that I am making a judgment on your IQ. Just an observation.

[Sako]

Re: What religion are you?

Understood, thanks for clarifying, all the same, religion is a part of a person not something that makes him different from others. This mentality has to change. Religion, that word, is misunderstood many times if not at all times. And Pepsi, nice response. I don't see why a religious person is more clever or stupid then a non religious person. I have friends from both fields and they all have their good and bad sides.