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  • #41
    Originally posted by Anonymouse Ahhh, my thesis in full effect, namely that political systems create more divisions than "unity".
    How is that so? This seems to be a situation where 10 people disagree with one. And if there were no divisions in opinion, it would be called totalitarianism, wouldn't it? So what is your thesis, actually?

    Comment

    • #42
      I'm not so much saying I disagree with "opinion", rather, politics divides people into groups, or camps, whether it is by race, religion, ethnicity or culture, ideology, gender, etc., and creates problems of "I'm right, you're wrong", that is the basis of democracy. Well, that and the welfare state that follows.

      The arguments presented here stem from each person looking at the problems existing from a different political system lens.

      We already have one vocalist, Tigran, that seeks to be president because he believes he has the answers to solve the problems or what he deems "problems", and so does the next person. Everyone essentially has an opinion of what is best for everyone else, and that is what is exploited by the present political systems.
      Achkerov kute.

      Comment

      • #43
        Originally posted by Anonymouse I'm not so much saying I disagree with "opinion", rather, politics divides people into groups, or camps, whether it is by race, religion, ethnicity or culture, ideology, gender, etc., and creates problems of "I'm right, you're wrong", that is the basis of democracy. Well, that and the welfare state that follows.

        The arguments presented here stem from each person looking at the problems existing from a different political system lens.

        We already have one vocalist, Tigran, that seeks to be president because he believes he has the answers to solve the problems or what he deems "problems", and so does the next person. Everyone essentially has an opinion of what is best for everyone else, and that is what is exploited by the present political systems.
        lol, well that's not really that big of a thesis, now is it? Sounds like stating the obvious for me.

        And by the way, Tigran, if you do become president, I would refuse to serve in your cabinet. Unless I accepted, and then got all the other cabinet members to organize a coup d'état to kick you out....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

        Comment

        • #44
          Originally posted by Baron Dants lol, well that's not really that big of a thesis, now is it? Sounds like stating the obvious for me.

          And by the way, Tigran, if you do become president, I would refuse to serve in your cabinet. Unless I accepted, and then got all the other cabinet members to organize a coup d'état to kick you out....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
          Well, it is pretty big since we are attempting to solve Armenia's problems via the government, the same one that created the problem in the first place of debilitating the economy. Any serious student of economics knows that at any point, government interference in the market place has deleterious effects.

          Besides, the idea of an "Armenian Nation-State" which somehow suggests we are all "one and the same" and we've had a "fixed identity" for all time, is exposed as a fallacy by simply observing this thread on how we place distinctions on the different types of "Armenians" from various geographic locations who are culturally different than other Armenians, even in dialect.

          This is of course, part of the problem that came out of Enlightenment thinking, the same applies to all other Nation-States.
          Achkerov kute.

          Comment

          • #45
            well now that youve told me your evil plans Baron there is no way you will be part of my cabinet. Or i can put you in and then if you become too much of a problem i can arrange a convenient group of idiot journalists to bust into the parliament and shoot you dead & claim that you were driving our country into the dirt. and then i can become really powerful and rig elections so that Baron jr. will lose and he will be powerless to stop me because i will have my dirty hands in all parts of the government and will have the power to call the military down on baron jr. with the snap of my fingers. anyway im getting carried away. we dont know if there will be a baron jr. yet. by the way when i become president i will be called Metsen Tigran II. i will take over Georgia, Azerbaijan, & a piece of Iran as well, maybe take a chunk of Russia, then again maybe not. well see, ill keep you guys informed.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Anonymouse Ahhh, my thesis in full effect, namely that political systems create more divisions than "unity".
              Indeed, politic is equal to dirt, so i care less about it. What is realy disturbing is the fact that some individuals DIVIDE *armenian nation* in groups , only because they do not speak "the same" language/dialekt and they do not live in Armenia!


              Unity....well, i hope we'll get there some day.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Artsakhtsi Indeed, politic is equal to dirt, so i care less about it. What is realy disturbing is the fact that some individuals DIVIDE *armenian nation* in groups , only because they do not speak "the same" language/dialekt and they do not live in Armenia!


                Unity....well, i hope we'll get there some day.
                I don't believe that we are that far away from achieving it. I think we are moving towards a stronger unity of Armenians in the diaspora, as Tashnag/Ramgavar yevayln tension is starting to diminish due to the independance of Armenia.

                Also, I think that a greater unity has been created between the diaspora and Armenia. Citizens of Armenia seem to appreciate diasporans who come to Armenia, and great friendships are usually created. I think that this is more obvious in the youth, than it is in the older generation.

                All this to say: we are getting closer and closer...

                Comment

                • #48
                  Originally posted by Artsakhtsi Indeed, politic is equal to dirt, so i care less about it. What is realy disturbing is the fact that some individuals DIVIDE *armenian nation* in groups , only because they do not speak "the same" language/dialekt and they do not live in Armenia!


                  Unity....well, i hope we'll get there some day.
                  Indeed, politics is dirty. I believe it was Lenin himself who made it analogous to prostitution. You cannot go into politics expecting to be moral or ethical, but rather power corrupts, to quote Lord Acton, and you must be willing to place your morals aside or you will not be successful.

                  Now what I wanted to say earlier that you wanted me to expand on, is the idea of an Armenian Nation-State. This idea propounds that we are all "Armenian" and "united" and we all seek the same common passed and our identity has been fixed for all time. That is not the way it goes, and hence all nation-states in the modern era are rooted in this fallacy.
                  Achkerov kute.

                  Comment

                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Baron Dants I don't believe that we are that far away from achieving it. I think we are moving towards a stronger unity of Armenians in the diaspora, as Tashnag/Ramgavar yevayln tension is starting to diminish due to the independance of Armenia.

                    Also, I think that a greater unity has been created between the diaspora and Armenia. Citizens of Armenia seem to appreciate diasporans who come to Armenia, and great friendships are usually created. I think that this is more obvious in the youth, than it is in the older generation.

                    All this to say: we are getting closer and closer...


                    I want to belive that, couse i know that our time will come, *we* (armenian-nation) realy deserve a peace and normal life !

                    Astvatse mez het lini !

                    Comment

                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Anonymouse Indeed, politics is dirty. I believe it was Lenin himself who made it analogous to prostitution. You cannot go into politics expecting to be moral or ethical, but rather power corrupts, to quote Lord Acton, and you must be willing to place your morals aside or you will not be successful.

                      Now what I wanted to say earlier that you wanted me to expand on, is the idea of an Armenian Nation-State. This idea propounds that we are all "Armenian" and "united" and we all seek the same common passed and our identity has been fixed for all time. That is not the way it goes, and hence all nation-states in the modern era are rooted in this fallacy.
                      So true..about putting morals aside otherwise you won't succed.


                      About *Armenian Nation-State*, (if i understood you right), yes we all are different- indeed, it's historys work.But like i said earlier, all of us want the same thing - a peace and calmness .
                      We gotta drop that think with dividing the "real" armenians form *non-real* ones..... that's the issue!

                      CheErs

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