Religion and Atheism

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Animals are more complex then you guys seem to think. They have a wide range of behavior and pretty much everything we humans do and feel they do and feel as well. Selfishness, jelousy, murder, compassion even alturism and suicide are observable behaviours already documented. We humans are animals to (despite what religion tells you) and it is not a big surprise that we share so many characteristics with other animals. Environmental conditions can greatly effect human and animal behaviour and the study done on newly discovered tribes of people shows how money can totally change behaviour of the whole society-mainly in a negative way.

[hipeter924]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Animals when living under conditions of freedom don't exhibit these behaviours. They only consume what they require to survive. As soon as they are domesticated, they become fat and lazy. Possibly a result of depression from being oppressed? Or maybe they learn from people?

That's true, domestication is the problem in most cases. Though these days very few animals have conditions of freedom, especially with global deforestation and destruction of their natural habitats.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Monkey's share a lot of genes with us but they aren't human, and I am sure that monkeys do hoard the banana's. When they did a test with other animals in the wild, and feed them with fruit and then stopped feeding them the animals turned on each other and hoarded the food.

Animals when living under conditions of freedom don't exhibit these behaviours. They only consume what they require to survive. As soon as they are domesticated, they become fat and lazy. Possibly a result of depression from being oppressed? Or maybe they learn from people?

[hipeter924]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Have you ever seen a monkey hoard all the bananas in the world just so it can have a banana monopoly?

Monkey's share a lot of genes with us but they aren't human, and I am sure that monkeys do hoard the banana's. When they did a test with other animals in the wild, and feed them with fruit and then stopped feeding them the animals turned on each other and hoarded the food.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Selfishness and Greed is not evil, only the excesses.

All people are inherently selfish or we couldn't exist (caring for your own health such as eating food is selfish), achieving things for yourself is selfish but without such selfish natures we would have been without Thomas Edison and many other industrialists and inventors.

Stalin hated the fact people were too individualistic so dedicated a lot of research in the USSR to finding how to collectivise humanity and make it more like dogs and other animals that could be easily controlled. To suggest that selfishness is wrong is to adopt Stalin's ideological system for humanity, that individualism must be destroyed.

As for Greed, again it is a matter of excess. People can have greed to be wealthy, powerful or to strengthen themselves or their country.

In both Greed and Selfishness however its when you do so at the expense of others and in violation of other people's rights that Greed and Selfishness can become evil.

Have you ever seen a monkey hoard all the bananas in the world just so it can have a banana monopoly?

[hipeter924]

Re: Religion and Atheism

They weren't evil, they were selfish and greedy. Evil is a cause of being selfish and greedy. You can use intelligence for GOoD or DEVIL, all depends on which side you're on.

Selfishness and Greed is not evil, only the excesses.

All people are inherently selfish or we couldn't exist (caring for your own health such as eating food is selfish), achieving things for yourself is selfish but without such selfish natures we would have been without Thomas Edison and many other industrialists and inventors.

Stalin hated the fact people were too individualistic so dedicated a lot of research in the USSR to finding how to collectivise humanity and make it more like dogs and other animals that could be easily controlled. To suggest that selfishness is wrong is to adopt Stalin's ideological system for humanity, that individualism must be destroyed.

As for Greed, again it is a matter of excess. People can have greed to be wealthy, powerful or to strengthen themselves or their country.

In both Greed and Selfishness however its when you do so at the expense of others and in violation of other people's rights that Greed and Selfishness can become evil.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Intelligence is nothing to do with morality.

The people who caused the Armenian Genocide were very smart. but they were just plain evil.

Or in another case the people who did trials of witches in the middle ages were incredibly stupid, but they were just plain evil.

They weren't evil, they were selfish and greedy. Evil is a cause of being selfish and greedy. You can use intelligence for GOoD or DEVIL, all depends on which side you're on.

[hipeter924]

Re: Religion and Atheism

aaaaaaaaaaha ... now we are getting to the REAL answer which is "intelligence"!!!

Morality simply is a result of intelligence. In other words, being immoral is basically stupid.

Of course there are always contradicting goals and motivations (selfish goals vs more utilitarian goals) and that is where most of the conflicts arise. One can be very smart with purely selfish goals and end up being horribly immoral in the big picture. But then you can argue that that person wasn't very smart to have those selfish goals to begin with

Intelligence is nothing to do with morality.

The people who caused the Armenian Genocide were very smart. but they were just plain evil.

Or in another case the people who did trials of witches in the middle ages were incredibly stupid, but they were just plain evil.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

So if you were instead born into an immoral society compared to the standards created by the society in which you were raised, how would you know any different?

aaaaaaaaaaha ... now we are getting to the REAL answer which is "intelligence"!!!

Morality simply is a result of intelligence. In other words, being immoral is basically stupid.

Of course there are always contradicting goals and motivations (selfish goals vs more utilitarian goals) and that is where most of the conflicts arise. One can be very smart with purely selfish goals and end up being horribly immoral in the big picture. But then you can argue that that person wasn't very smart to have those selfish goals to begin with

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

A lie is a non-truth, so I don't see how that's still not "wrong." What sorts of lies really don't affect anyone else?

I did answer your question... I said they come from society.

You can conceal the truth without telling a lie. It's also not a lie if you believe it's true.

At one point evolution was being taught wrong in classrooms, does that mean teachers and professors were telling lies? Of course not, they believed it to be true and taught the material even though it wasn't until later that they found it to be false based on new evidence.

So if you were instead born into an immoral society compared to the standards created by the society in which you were raised, how would you know any different?