Religion and Atheism

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Tv today in general is part of what replaced the role of the church from before modern times, broadcasting prescriptive behavior to society.

Today's churches don't have the monopoly over that business, they are on the sidelines, they can't get the masses anymore, so they focus on their little niche audience (which varies between different churches/religious centers). I don't understand why you're so upset at religion... because people, whether or not they go to church or whatever, seem to have a hard time living a life free of prescribed norms imposed on them by people who stand to exploit them in such a state of belief, and I don't see any improvement really by ousting "creationism" from our society's menu of possible beliefs to subscribe to.

I am upset with religion because i believe it does more harm then good to humanity. From catholic schoolboys who cant walk straight to muslim women who had their xxxxts cut out-religion is full of the most vial things one human can do to another. Religion is used to justify all kinds of abuses, theft, rape, torture, genocide...all done in the name of religion-yet you still need to ask me why i am upset at religion? Creationism is a joke and if you do not understand why it is a joke then the education system has failed you miserably. Maybe your ok with living in a society that hails a joke as the law of life but i am not.

[hipeter924]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Tv today in general is part of what replaced the role of the church from before modern times, broadcasting prescriptive behavior to society.

Today's churches don't have the monopoly over that business, they are on the sidelines, they can't get the masses anymore, so they focus on their little niche audience (which varies between different churches/religious centers). I don't understand why you're so upset at religion... because people, whether or not they go to church or whatever, seem to have a hard time living a life free of prescribed norms imposed on them by people who stand to exploit them in such a state of belief, and I don't see any improvement really by ousting "creationism" from our society's menu of possible beliefs to subscribe to.

Well there will always be some kind of spiritual or religious belief, it might be insane or retarded; but people still believe the earth is flat. Creationism is effectively the same, some go a step further and say we don't exist or that we are just a bunch of gas clouds floating in nothingness. But calling creationism 'science', that's silly. It's one thing to claim evolution is false and think there is a better theory, but quite another to put one even worse (and more flaky in evidence) in its place.

[jgk3]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Do i realy have to point out the obvious? Dont the same people who use religion also use it through media? Have you seen sunday morning tv programings?

Tv today in general is part of what replaced the role of the church from before modern times, broadcasting prescriptive behavior to society.

Today's churches don't have the monopoly over that business, they are on the sidelines, they can't get the masses anymore, so they focus on their little niche audience (which varies between different churches/religious centers). I don't understand why you're so upset at religion... because people, whether or not they go to church or whatever, seem to have a hard time living a life free of prescribed norms imposed on them by people who stand to exploit them in such a state of belief, and I don't see any improvement really by ousting "creationism" from our society's menu of possible beliefs to subscribe to.

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Do i realy have to point out the obvious? Dont the same people who use religion also use it through media? Have you seen sunday morning tv programings?

[Armanen]

Re: Religion and Atheism

"This just goes to show how easy it is to manipulate people. "
That is my point. Religion is the most effective tool for such manipulation. It really does not matter what this tool(religion) was designed for. What matters is how this tool is used.

In some parts of the world, or most you can make an argument for this. However in the industrialized west, the media is the preferred method.
Again, there is nothing wrong with religion, but with those who claim to act in its name and in fact are going against its teachings in the worst way(s).

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

"This just goes to show how easy it is to manipulate people. "
That is my point. Religion is the most effective tool for such manipulation. It really does not matter what this tool(religion) was designed for. What matters is how this tool is used.

I would say TV and the media is the most effective tool to manipulate people. People make fun of mennonites and the amish but they aren't affected by the world wide economy, nor do they care what TV or the media has to say.

[ashot24]

Re: Religion and Atheism

"This just goes to show how easy it is to manipulate people. "
That is my point. Religion is the most effective tool for such manipulation. It really does not matter what this tool(religion) was designed for. What matters is how this tool is used.

And it is used as everything for personal interests, as an example, some years ago in the county I live there were presidential elections, and one of the left-winged candidate had an amazing support by people...the right-winged candidates (which control everything) used the "church" (in " because that is no church) to spread propaganda by telling people the "Armageddon" we would face if such candidate won, and we saw quickly how the candidate with the highest support got down to the lower level on polls and did't even got to the top 10 rank. The church and the mockery of people's faith by all these "religious leaders" is an incredible economic tool and serves for manipulation in every religion all over the world, which is sickening...there's a saying which goes "The church/mosque/synagogue is such a good business there's a branch in every town"...

Religions are not bad, religions were meant to unify people and to make them one, to make their lives better by teaching them unity, tolerance, solidarity, respect and love...religions are good. But what is not only bad but terrible is the people, people who for the sake of their interests or their personal opinions changed by will the religious texts, by tainting them with messages of hate, prejudice, fear, etc. favoring them or their ideas, people who used the faith of the followers in order to gain benefits from them, people who through religion have fooled the masses by playing with their feelings. As you mentioned during the spanish conquests..there's no better example of how religion can be lowered to such a level that it is used as a tool of oppression better than the guns.

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

"This just goes to show how easy it is to manipulate people. "
That is my point. Religion is the most effective tool for such manipulation. It really does not matter what this tool(religion) was designed for. What matters is how this tool is used.

[Armanen]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Actually that logic is not so poor at all. China did exactly that and look at what happened to their population. I myself like guns and own a few nice ones but that logic of taking away everyones guns will actually bring down homicide rates- there is no question that it will. Whether it is the right thing to do or not is another issue. I have no argument against the fact that there are good people who are religious and that many people have indeed benefited from various things provided by religious teachings and institutions. Unfortunately all the good work that has been done in the name of religion pales in comparson to the evile that was done under the same name. From the spanish inquisition to our own genocide and everything before durinmg and after that period attests to the carnage inflicted on humanity in the name of religiion. The divisions and hatred that religion creates among people does far more harm to humanity then if you had taken all of its benefits and multiplied them by a 1,000. The teachings of some religions may indeed be for the betterment of mankind but that is not how these religions end up being used, they always end up doing exactly the opposit no matter how well intentioned they were to start with. As for how science can explain your first question i suggest you use google and look for scientific reasearch papers/articles in those fields i mentioned in relation to ethics, morality... I think you will find plenty of interesting stuff in there to keep you occupied for months. Reading sociology and psichology reasearch is actually very interesting and i recomend it to anyone. Much of the results may draw the reaction of "bah of course thats how it is, everybody knows that" but its not that simple. For example which of the following statements is true? "birds of a feather flock togather" or "opposits attract"? Plenty of people will proclaim one or the other to be the fact of life but it is not until you do scientific research that you get the right answer. Once you read what the results of the study state then you become the victim of hindsight and proclaim you knew this all along when that simply was not the case. Human nature is a funny thing and it is quite interesting to study it.

I will start a new thread on gun control so as to reply to you and not 'hijack' this thread.

I think the key to this issue, whether religion is good or bad won't go anywhere between us because you believe it has done more bad than good, so you treat the so called tools of religion as part of it, whereas I say many of those who did bad things in the name of religion were likely not religious at all or had a very poor understanding of it. Religion can divide, it can also unite, same is true with ethnicity and nationality. If you expect people to become free thinkers overnight because they get rid of religion, then you highly under estimate human nature. People are fickle and sheepish, especially in the western world. So long as their economic needs/wants are taken care of they will do as they are told and continue to be the sheeple.
The problem isn't religion, it is human nature.

As far as th AG being muslims vs. Christians, that was concocted by the cryto joo leaders of the cup, the real motivation was political, i.e. pan turanism. This just goes to show how easy it is to manipulate people.

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Haykakan:

How do sociology and psychology explain ethics or morality? This is a question, not a challenge.


You say religion does more harm, but do you realize that it was religious people who were behind the anti slavery movement or that it was religious arabs and Christian missionaries that saved many Armenians during and after the AG? We can go on and on about the positive things that people of faith do, and we can also list the negatives, but the teachings of all major religions, except judaism, are for the betterment of all mankind. Just because some have mis used it does not mean that the religion itself is bad. It's like how some want to take guns away from all Americans because some idiots who have them, most without a permit, commit crimes. As you can see the logic of those wanting to take everyone's guns away is poor.

Actually that logic is not so poor at all. China did exactly that and look at what happened to their population. I myself like guns and own a few nice ones but that logic of taking away everyones guns will actually bring down homicide rates- there is no question that it will. Whether it is the right thing to do or not is another issue. I have no argument against the fact that there are good people who are religious and that many people have indeed benefited from various things provided by religious teachings and institutions. Unfortunately all the good work that has been done in the name of religion pales in comparson to the evile that was done under the same name. From the spanish inquisition to our own genocide and everything before durinmg and after that period attests to the carnage inflicted on humanity in the name of religiion. The divisions and hatred that religion creates among people does far more harm to humanity then if you had taken all of its benefits and multiplied them by a 1,000. The teachings of some religions may indeed be for the betterment of mankind but that is not how these religions end up being used, they always end up doing exactly the opposit no matter how well intentioned they were to start with. As for how science can explain your first question i suggest you use google and look for scientific reasearch papers/articles in those fields i mentioned in relation to ethics, morality... I think you will find plenty of interesting stuff in there to keep you occupied for months. Reading sociology and psichology reasearch is actually very interesting and i recomend it to anyone. Much of the results may draw the reaction of "bah of course thats how it is, everybody knows that" but its not that simple. For example which of the following statements is true? "birds of a feather flock togather" or "opposits attract"? Plenty of people will proclaim one or the other to be the fact of life but it is not until you do scientific research that you get the right answer. Once you read what the results of the study state then you become the victim of hindsight and proclaim you knew this all along when that simply was not the case. Human nature is a funny thing and it is quite interesting to study it.