Atheism and being Armenian

[Christina]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

There is a book I think it is labeled The End of faith, by Sam Harris.
I skimmed through it. But that is all.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

I have never seen it happen.

So you have been around for longer than your 38-post current logon name would suggest. "Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?"

[Sip]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Often times i wonder, when having these discussions, do we really expect that any side will give in and abandon their believe no matter how much evidence is pour on their lap? Same goes for politics, such as karabakh or Armenian Genocide. I can never imagine someone standing up shaking your hand saying you are right and that they were an idiot and are now going to follow your side. I have never seen it happen.

Just because you don't see it happen right away, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen Ideologies, stigma, etc all spread over a long period of time. Once they are set, it takes a long time to purge people of their cancerous holds. But it does happen. Sure it is unlikely you will see someone do a flip right in front of you but throughout my years on the internets I have seen many go from "I know for sure ... " to "I believe .. " to "lets look at it this way ... " etc and slowly refining their tone to have a much more balanced approach to their thinking. Of course not everyone is going to make that mental leap to see behond the "scriptures" that are handed to them by their parents, teachers, messiahs, or whatever other authority figure brain washed them into a certain from of thinking ... but there are many that do in fact change over time.

The other benefit of such discussions is trying to clarify your own thinking. I personally don't know much but such discussions have been crucial in forcing me to think critically about the essense of many such difficult to grasp topics, why people think the way they do, what are flaws, what are positives, and what are negatives in what is being presented ...

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Often times i wonder, when having these discussions, do we really expect that any side will give in and abandon their believe no matter how much evidence is pour on their lap? Same goes for politics, such as karabakh or Armenian Genocide. I can never imagine someone standing up shaking your hand saying you are right and that they were an idiot and are now going to follow your side. I have never seen it happen.

True. Threads like this almost never change peoples' views. Mostly they exist to batter those with opposing views into several weeks or months silence! But, even if someone is, by the weakness of their words and arguments, revealed to be an ignorant peasant who believes 2 + 2 = 5, he/she won't stop believing that 2 + 2 = 5 is correct, and will eventually return to start the same old argument all over again, and probably with the same end result. I suppose they might sometimes sway those who are undecided, or prevously uninterested, to move towards a particular viewpoint.

What is the purpose of internet drama?
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women".

[Odysseus]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Often times i wonder, when having these discussions, do we really expect that any side will give in and abandon their believe no matter how much evidence is pour on their lap? Same goes for politics, such as karabakh or Armenian Genocide. I can never imagine someone standing up shaking your hand saying you are right and that they were an idiot and are now going to follow your side. I have never seen it happen.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

The very reason I posted the video this way is because i wanted to avoid people being biased as a result of the introduction i would give so as to leave it up to them to experience (possibly interpret if there is any interpretation to have) it in their own way without prejudice. this film is open ended in that it could in fact be unsettling for a "believer" (even more so than for an "atheist")

I haven't seen anything of that sort yet and I have seen and heard lots. The only thing unsettling is that someone conceived of these things.
In fact, you're behaving as if others' lack of belief is unsettling for you. I have not tried to sway your beliefs at all, yet you have posted these snarky insulting comments, biblical quotes, and now this video.

I think what you wrote (with the implications it had) was not something an admin should post. i don't see where the respect is in censoring my initial post nor do i see the respect in suggesting that you would waste your time watching something i proposed. either you are being hypocritical or you are lying to yourself.

PS: thank you very much. i am done with this "discussion" and with this "forum" too (someone will be happy). this time i am not coming back. if only you'd realize how narrow-minded you both are...

Note you could have said, this is relevant, but I don't want to color your interpretation, so I won't say more... and that would have been something at least.
If you decide to make no such introduction, then you should be prepared that your video won't be watched.
I did not delete it out of any disrespect. If posts are not relevant (ie are off-topic) then they are deleted. Most members don't ever see these posts and therefore don't have any means to appreciate what the moderation does to keep the forum orderly and clean. I think it is unfair to expect a moderator to watch such a lengthy video to determine whether it is relevant and so it is simpler to assume it is not and delete it.

Which "thing" should I have not written? That if the video is 60 minute long propaganda, I am glad I didn't watch it? I don't see the part where I'm being hypocritical. Perhaps you can explain it to me.

[gkv]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

First you claim "there is ... not even a message" in the film - but now you say it conveys "christian theology and its basic tenets".

at the expense of repeating myself, no it does not convey any sort of theology (in fact it could very well have been by an atheist) but the interpretation you gave is one that assumes it does and in doing so provides a viewpoint that christian theology does not support.
either my english is bad or you are trying to find contradictions where there are none only for the sake of winning an imaginary argument with me.

BTW, please do not place text in a quote box to suggest it was typed by another person. You could not have taken that text from my post because it did not exist when you made your post.

what a jesuitical thing to say. it did exist at one point. i read my email first (i am on vacation with limited internet access). i won't quote the rest this time.

You posted the videos and nothing else to explain WHY we should watch them and how it will relate to the discussion...When you post a video (especially one of such length), you should introduce it in some way.

The very reason I posted the video this way is because i wanted to avoid people being biased as a result of the introduction i would give so as to leave it up to them to experience (possibly interpret if there is any interpretation to have) it in their own way without prejudice. this film is open ended in that it could in fact be unsettling for a "believer" (even more so than for an "atheist")

You're trying my patience. I have consistently tried to be courteous and respectful to you, but you always have something snarky to say in return.

I think what you wrote (with the implications it had) was not something an admin should post. i don't see where the respect is in censoring my initial post nor do i see the respect in suggesting that you would waste your time watching something i proposed. either you are being hypocritical or you are lying to yourself.

PS: thank you very much. i am done with this "discussion" and with this "forum" too (someone will be happy). this time i am not coming back. if only you'd realize how narrow-minded you both are...

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

As though the way you spend your time was of general interest...

You're trying my patience. I have consistently tried to be courteous and respectful to you, but you always have something snarky to say in return.

Well you admit not having watched it and still claim it was posted with "absolutely no tie in to the ongoing discussion" which justifies its deletion.
The "logic" appears to be somewhat flawed.

When you approach something in a biased way, you tend to interpret very narrowly so that it fits your bias...
I said you posted it without tying it in. You posted the videos and nothing else to explain WHY we should watch them and how it will relate to the discussion.
You cannot ask people to spend an hour to even see if it relates to anything. When you post a video (especially one of such length), you should introduce it in some way.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

No it does not. It is a biased and idiotic interpretation (idiotic for it goes against christian theology and its basic tenets)

First you claim "there is ... not even a message" in the film - but now you say it conveys "christian theology and its basic tenets".

BTW, please do not place text in a quote box to suggest it was typed by another person. You could not have taken that text from my post because it did not exist when you made your post.

[gkv]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

speaking of magical realism, bulgakov's master & margherita is not a bad read. i would say the first part with the positive/"scientifically"-minded comrades, their encounter with the devil is almost entertaining.

the film adaptation is good too (but quite long, i should warn, certainly not something siggie would want to spend her precious time watching)