Atheism and being Armenian

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gkv replied

06-06-2011, 08:49 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Here's a book relating a phenomenon that deserves mention in the context of your previous statements.

Doubly chosen: jewish identity, the Soviet intelligentsia, and the Russian Orthodox Church (Google eBook)
Judith Deutsch Kornblatt
0 Reviews
Univ of Wisconsin Press, 2004 - History - 203 pages
Doubly Chosen provides the first detailed study of a unique cultural and religious phenomenon in post-Stalinist Russia—the conversion of thousands of Russian jewish intellectuals to Orthodox Christianity, first in the 1960s and later in the 1980s. These time periods correspond to the decades before and after the great exodus of jews from the Soviet Union. Judith Deutsch Kornblatt contends that the choice of baptism into the Church was an act of moral courage in the face of Soviet persecution, motivated by solidarity with the values espoused by Russian Christian dissidents and intellectuals. Oddly, as Kornblatt shows, these converts to Russian Orthodoxy began to experience their jewishness in a new and positive way.
Working primarily from oral interviews conducted in Russia, Israel, and the United States, Kornblatt underscores the conditions of Soviet life that spurred these conversions: the virtual elimination of Judaism as a viable, widely practiced religion; the transformation of jews from a religious community to an ethnic one; a longing for spiritual values; the role of the Russian Orthodox Church as a symbol of Russian national culture; and the forging of a new jewish identity within the context of the Soviet dissident movement.

Doubly Chosen

http://books.google.com/books/about/Doubly_chosen.html?id=nPPaN-jkrcUC

Doubly Chosen provides the first detailed study of a unique cultural and religious phenomenon in post-Stalinist Russia—the conversion of thousands of Russian Jewish intellectuals to Orthodox Christianity, first in the 1960s and later in the 1980s. These time periods correspond to the decades before and after the great exodus of Jews from the Soviet Union. Judith Deutsch Kornblatt contends that the choice of baptism into the Church was an act of moral courage in the face of Soviet persecution, motivated by solidarity with the values espoused by Russian Christian dissidents and intellectuals. Oddly, as Kornblatt shows, these converts to Russian Orthodoxy began to experience their Jewishness in a new and positive way. Working primarily from oral interviews conducted in Russia, Israel, and the United States, Kornblatt underscores the conditions of Soviet life that spurred these conversions: the virtual elimination of Judaism as a viable, widely practiced religion; the transformation of Jews from a religious community to an ethnic one; a longing for spiritual values; the role of the Russian Orthodox Church as a symbol of Russian national culture; and the forging of a new Jewish identity within the context of the Soviet dissident movement.

Last edited by gkv; 06-06-2011, 08:52 AM. Reason: bypass forum filter
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KanadaHye replied

06-06-2011, 08:48 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by Siggie View Post

Sure. Those whose faith is "solid", shouldn't be shaken.

Even something as solid as a boulder can be shaken if there is a tremendous amount of opposing force.
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Siggie replied

06-06-2011, 08:46 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by gkv View Post

it is perfectly defensible for a blind person to claim he/she does not believe in, say, the sun.
does such a claim "shake" the non-blind's world as a result?
i would say only the blind who believe/are willing to believe yet are not too sure might be shaken.
those who see will only be saddened, sometimes angered.
but there is no point in being angry.

Sure. Those whose faith is "solid", shouldn't be shaken.
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gkv replied

06-06-2011, 08:42 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by Siggie View Post

It shakes people's world's a little less to think that you're being "trendy" or that this "trend" is over (in fact, people are becoming more and more non-religious) than to think that your lack of belief is defensible.

it is perfectly defensible for a blind person to claim he/she does not believe in, say, the sun.
does such a claim "shake" the non-blind's world as a result?
i would say only the blind who believe/are willing to believe yet are not too sure might be shaken.
those who see will only be saddened, sometimes angered.
but there is no point in being angry.
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KanadaHye replied

06-06-2011, 07:24 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by Siggie View Post

The rest of the world is already faaaaaaaaaaar less religious than the US. There's a floor effect (is that the term for the reverse of a ceiling effect?).

Americans relate rejecting religion with being "free" but the "control" is due to being a country that is constantly at war. Religion is constantly used to keep people under "control". When order and control can be reinstated by a systematic approach, "religion" will no longer be needed.
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Siggie replied

06-06-2011, 07:16 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion

"1.1 billion people (16% of the world population) are considered non-religious. Some evidence suggests that the the fastest growing religious status is actually "no religion" in the United States."

When referring to people, I find that American citizens are rather inward looking and the views around them which are actually promoted by the media shapes their own beliefs and behaviour.

The rest of the world is already faaaaaaaaaaar less religious than the US. There's a floor effect (is that the term for the reverse of a ceiling effect?).
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KanadaHye replied

06-06-2011, 07:02 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by Siggie View Post

It shakes people's world's a little less to think that you're being "trendy" or that this "trend" is over (in fact, people are becoming more and more non-religious) than to think that your lack of belief is defensible.

Irreligion - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion

"1.1 billion people (16% of the world population) are considered non-religious. Some evidence suggests that the the fastest growing religious status is actually "no religion" in the United States."

When referring to people, I find that American citizens are rather inward looking and the views around them which are actually promoted by the media shapes their own beliefs and behaviour.

Last edited by KanadaHye; 06-06-2011, 07:05 AM.
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Siggie replied

06-06-2011, 06:58 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by Odysseus View Post

are u saying i am trying to be trendy? i could care less about trends. i put up with teasing and xxxx by Armenians as a kid becouse i never belived in god. only time i started to want to belive in one was around late highschool when my life was falling apart i thought maybe that can help but even then inside i couldnt belive it. its not about a trend, if anything Christianity is a trend. But then again arent armenians OBSESSED with what is in and trendy? i see it in glendale every day.

It shakes people's world's a little less to think that you're being "trendy" or that this "trend" is over (in fact, people are becoming more and more non-religious) than to think that your lack of belief is defensible.
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gkv replied

06-06-2011, 01:47 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by Odysseus

i am very indifferent about the concept

most people are indifferent about concepts.

Originally posted by Odysseus

the nihilistic reality of things

profound wording but i don't understand how this fits with the marcus aurelius quote.
or maybe a subtle illustration of your "nihilism".
sounding "paradoxical".
interesting.
very interesting.

Originally posted by Odysseus

if anything Christianity is a trend

possibly but, you have to admit, a lasting one, defining a two thousand year era... (however people try to label it)

Common Era - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era

Originally posted by Odysseus

armenians OBSESSED with what is in and trendy

nowadays, yes. historically speaking, no.
one can take the example of latinization in cilicia, which didn't work that well.

PS: nice avatar and refreshing contribution. be sure to stay around. you are part of the exhibition (some background here)
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Odysseus replied

06-06-2011, 12:22 AM
Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Originally posted by Lucin View Post

Ahh I know.. it's not very classy, intelligent, chic or intellectual to identify ourselves as Christian or to believe in God.. there is also the risk of being ridiculed by 'intellectuals'...
Actually, atheism is obsolete now so let's wait a bit for the next 'trend' to identify ourselves with.

are u saying i am trying to be trendy? i could care less about trends. i put up with teasing and xxxx by Armenians as a kid becouse i never belived in god. only time i started to want to belive in one was around late highschool when my life was falling apart i thought maybe that can help but even then inside i couldnt belive it. its not about a trend, if anything Christianity is a trend. But then again arent armenians OBSESSED with what is in and trendy? i see it in glendale every day.
Leave a comment: