Why are atheists disliked in America?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

What do Indians have to do with anything...? No distractions.

I'm asking if you can find the life expectancy of American Indians prior to European settlers invading North America. If you can find reliable sources on Ancient Rome, you must surely be able to find facts about more recent people like the American Indians.

[Siggie]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

It wasn't too long ago that babies whose necks were wrapped around umbilical cords never survived either. Mind you if and when there is a WW3, you'll see just how quick the standards of life drop so to compare the last 50 years of peace which north americans and europeans have enjoyed can't really be attributed to the general knowledge of every citizen. Take away the hospitals and computers and see how quickly society deteriorates.

What's your point with the umbilical cords? You are the one who made the comparison group thousands of years old... If you're arguing that we don't know much more today than people living 2000 years ago, then you're also saying that we don't know more today than any group in the time between. So, it doesn't matter if lobotomies were 50-60 years ago or that obstetrics has made advances more recently.

You do this a lot... you argue pointless, irrelevant things.
Do you really not know what's relevant, do you enjoy arguing about anything and so grab at any opportunity, or are you intentionally trying to distract from the point being argued when you feel it's going unfavorably to you? It's gotta be one of these, no?

Let's refocus...
Do we know more about neonatal care and obstetrics today than 200 years ago? Is your answer no?

You do realize that technology is also knowledge gained. You didn't mention libraries being 'cheating' (e.g. the one in Alexandria).
Even if we look at it your way and forget the general knowledge of the citizen... You're saying doctors and surgeons then and now had equivalent knowledge?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

Yes, not living in filth is an important first step. Had they largely eradicated polio, tuberculosis, etc? Had they discovered that adding fluoride to their water would help prevent cavities? Had they discovered fluoride at all? How about germ theory?
Perhaps it would be easier if you tell us what it is they were so good at preventing?

When a particular measure isn't going to show things in favor of your argument you toss it aside. Oh life expectancy measures are flawed and can't be trusted... let's rely on Kanada's flapping gums instead. Perfect!
Let's look at the survival of newborns then... What % of babies were delivered alive? What % survived to see their 1st birthdays? Perhaps this is a cleaner health index for you since babies don't go to war or drive?

It wasn't too long ago that babies whose necks were wrapped around umbilical cords never survived either. Mind you if and when there is a WW3, you'll see just how quick the standards of life drop so to compare the last 50 years of peace which north americans and europeans have enjoyed can't really be attributed to the general knowledge of every citizen. Take away the hospitals and computers and see how quickly society deteriorates.

In reference to the fluoride, there are cities whose citizens are demanding that fluoride be removed from drinking water.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm

[Siggie]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

They could have chosen to eat unhealthy as well but made a conscious decision not to include unhealthy foods in their diets. For the most part, kids in north america eat whatever the school cafeteria serves and society as a whole chooses an unhealthy regiment.

Who's the they who could have eaten unhealthy, but made a conscious decision to eat healthy foods? The ancients? What unhealthy options did they have that they recognized as unhealthy and for that reason didn't consume.

The average age of the upper class was probably 50-60
The slaves were probably 20-30

How long do you think the American Indians lived prior to the European settlers jacking up their mojo?

Are you guessing again?
What do Indians have to do with anything...? No distractions.

The CDC report said the death rate for the U.S. population for 2009 was 741 deaths per 100,000 people in 2009

That's 7410 per 1,000,000 which was probably the population in ancient Rome. 7500 compared to 30,000. ]Mind you, statistics isn't a perfect science. Unless you're a tax payer, the government wouldn't notice you're dead

Are you suggesting an additional 22,500 could be dying in the US annually and we just don't notice them? How high do you think the error rates are?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

Doesn't matter if they "needed" info or not, you said they knew more. What you are saying here is different. You are saying they didn't need info because they didn't have access to as much unhealthy options as we have today. That is true but at least we know what is healthy and what isn't.

They could have chosen to eat unhealthy as well but made a conscious decision not to include unhealthy foods in their diets. For the most part, kids in north america eat whatever the school cafeteria serves and society as a whole chooses an unhealthy regiment.

No guessing here. What was the life expectancy in ancient rome? "Some" lived passed 70 to 100 doesn't mean anything. Today "some" live passed 70-100 too. If you were a normal human being in Rome, not a soldier, how long would you expect to live? How long do you expect to live now?

The average age of the upper class was probably 50-60
The slaves were probably 20-30

How long do you think the American Indians lived prior to the European settlers jacking up their mojo?

Also "outbreaks and disease during times of war"? No they had outbreaks and disease during ALL different times. I quote from here:

30,000 dying a year? Even in a place like LA with many many millions of residents, 30,000 dead of some disease outbreak would be apocalyptic by today's standards. Just to put things in perspective, deaths by murder are probably on the order of 1000 or less in all of LA county. That's with almost a 10 million population!

The CDC report said the death rate for the U.S. population for 2009 was 741 deaths per 100,000 people in 2009

That's 7410 per 1,000,000 which was probably the population in ancient Rome. 7500 compared to 30,000. Mind you, statistics isn't a perfect science. Unless you're a tax payer, the government wouldn't notice you're dead

[Sip]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

They didn't need nutritional information, their diets consisted of cereals, olives, wine, fruits and vegetables.... chickpeas, lentils, etc.

Doesn't matter if they "needed" info or not, you said they knew more. What you are saying here is different. You are saying they didn't need info because they didn't have access to as much unhealthy options as we have today. That is true but at least we know what is healthy and what isn't.

Sure there were outbreaks of disease during times of war or conditions put upon slaves, etc. but some people still lived past 70-100. A lot of their lives were cut short due to murder, etc.

No guessing here. What was the life expectancy in ancient rome? "Some" lived passed 70 to 100 doesn't mean anything. Today "some" live passed 70-100 too. If you were a normal human being in Rome, not a soldier, how long would you expect to live? How long do you expect to live now?

Also "outbreaks and disease during times of war"? No they had outbreaks and disease during ALL different times. I quote from here:

While the people of Rome are known to have suffered from plagues, which erupted at various times, the real killers, were infectious diseases like malaria (Plasmodium Falciparium, the most dangerous form), tuberculosis, typhoid fever, and certain digestive ailments like gastroenteritis. Studies suggest that the period from July to October was marked by high mortality, with about 30,000 residents dying each year. Roman authors refer to these months as ‘sickly’ and urge their fellow Romans to flee the city for the healthy climate of the country ...

30,000 dying a year? Even in a place like LA with many many millions of residents, 30,000 dead of some disease outbreak would be apocalyptic by today's standards. Just to put things in perspective, deaths by murder are probably on the order of 1000 or less in all of LA county. That's with almost a 10 million population!

[Siggie]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

They didn't need nutritional information, their diets consisted of cereals, olives, wine, fruits and vegetables.... chickpeas, lentils, etc.

Sure there were outbreaks of disease during times of war or conditions put upon slaves, etc. but some people still lived past 70-100. A lot of their lives were cut short due to murder, etc.

Do you think the life expectancy in North America takes into account automobile accidents, murder, accidental death, etc? Most immigrant farmers don't live past 50. The statistics used to determine modern life expectancy isn't a reflection of true length of life. The biggest achievement as of late has been in heart surgeries and child hood diseases, malaria, or else the life expectancy of modern countries wouldn't be that much of a leap forward. The Romans insisted on insisted on fresh water and sanitary conditions in their homes and cities.

Yes, not living in filth is an important first step. Had they largely eradicated polio, tuberculosis, etc? Had they discovered that adding fluoride to their water would help prevent cavities? Had they discovered fluoride at all? How about germ theory?
Perhaps it would be easier if you tell us what it is they were so good at preventing?

When a particular measure isn't going to show things in favor of your argument you toss it aside. Oh life expectancy measures are flawed and can't be trusted... let's rely on Kanada's flapping gums instead. Perfect!
Let's look at the survival of newborns then... What % of babies were delivered alive? What % survived to see their 1st birthdays? Perhaps this is a cleaner health index for you since babies don't go to war or drive?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

People are clueless about food and health? Did you think back in the ancient greece and Rome, food came packaged with all its nutritional information, calories, sodium, saturated fats etc etc all clearly listed?

You do realize the Romans were dumping their garbage in the middle of the street right?

People were dying by the thousands at times when they would have outbreaks of diseases we don't even mention today. I don't know this but you seem to know such things with high confidence so I will ask: What do you think was the average life expectancy in Greece and Rome 2000 years ago compared to what it is now?

They didn't need nutritional information, their diets consisted of cereals, olives, wine, fruits and vegetables.... chickpeas, lentils, etc.

Sure there were outbreaks of disease during times of war or conditions put upon slaves, etc. but some people still lived past 70-100. A lot of their lives were cut short due to murder, etc.

Do you think the life expectancy in North America takes into account automobile accidents, murder, accidental death, etc? Most immigrant farmers don't live past 50. The statistics used to determine modern life expectancy isn't a reflection of true length of life. The biggest achievement as of late has been in heart surgeries and child hood diseases, malaria, or else the life expectancy of modern countries wouldn't be that much of a leap forward. The Romans insisted on insisted on fresh water and sanitary conditions in their homes and cities.

[Siggie]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

You started on the evolution based argument which has absolutely nothing to do with atheism.

I think the universe is too perfect and mankind too imperfect for there not to be a greater source of intelligence. If someone were to say they saw God or God spoke to them, nobody would believe them anyways. Certainly people can have visions in their dreams and attribute that to having contact with God but it could just be that our minds are more powerful during sleep than when awake. Concepts of good and evil, God and Devil, etc. are representations of pros/cons, hot/cold, positive/negative. If you think about it, all the forces that are holding the universe together is in perfect equilibrium and if there was an imbalance, our world would cease to exist.

In the same way that we don't have evidence to prove there is a God, we also don't have evidence to prove there isn't a God. Atheists argue proof is not needed for something that doesn't exist. For whatever reason, we are conditioned to imagine things that don't exist, something we refer to as vision. If people didn't have vision, there would be no cars, no television, no vcr's, etc. These things came from people that had vision. Mind you, some people are still hunting for the fountain of youth and Big Foot (imagination is separate from vision). There was a time when people sat there and wished they could change the TV channel without getting up and wham, the remote control was invented. Some people wish and hope while others do work and create. I would be shocked to find out that scientists and inventors in the past were non believers, despite what most of us are told today.

No, actually you started it...
We would never be here to ask these questions if it wasn't so perfect. It seems perfect for life because the life here is adapted to the environment.

[Sip]

Re: Why are atheists disliked in America?

Sure, if you think knowledge is about knowing how to use your blackberry! People are clueless about everything from food to health to medicine. If government didn't hold their hand, they'd be lost like little children.

People are clueless about food and health? Did you think back in the ancient greece and Rome, food came packaged with all its nutritional information, calories, sodium, saturated fats etc etc all clearly listed?

You do realize the Romans were dumping their garbage in the middle of the street right?

People were dying by the thousands at times when they would have outbreaks of diseases we don't even mention today. I don't know this but you seem to know such things with high confidence so I will ask: What do you think was the average life expectancy in Greece and Rome 2000 years ago compared to what it is now?