How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

[Mos]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

It is very easy to answer to the question asked
How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?
Answer: 100%

It's not only history, it's also the truth
I agree my friend, right on.

I think if the people who wrote the bible were alive today they would be laughing at you two.

I have a right to my own beliefs, as you do to yours.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

It is very easy to answer to the question asked
How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?
Answer: 100%

It's not only history, it's also the truth
I agree my friend, right on.

I think if the people who wrote the bible were alive today they would be laughing at you two.

[Mos]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

It is very easy to answer to the question asked
How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?
Answer: 100%

It's not only history, it's also the truth

I agree my friend, right on.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Don't all 3 Abrahamic religions have at their core the character of Abraham who was willing to slit his own child's throat because god told him he would be rewarded?

Going by historical timelines, Abraham is only significant in Judaism (Old Testament). Christianity views Abraham as an Old Testament figure. Muslims seemed to have adopted a lot of their religious views/customs from Judaism even though it developed after Christianity.

In order to claim Jesus as being J3wish and J3ws having believed to be descendants of Abraham, the politics of the day deemed Jesus a descendant of Abraham (which doesn't make much logical sense if he was really born to a virgin now does it?) Another oddity since J3ws tend to exhibit an unreal sense of logic (like Spock from Star Trek)

Don't all 3 Abrahamic religions in one form or another encourage (many times force) its followers to mutilate the genitals of their little children?

Nope, it's J3wish and Muslim practice.

Aren't all suicide bombers religious people who find rewards for their sadistic behavior within the texts of their so-called holy books?

They are usually poor people who get used by the wealthy who claim that the family they leave behind will receive royalties for taking their own life. Similar to those who join the military. In one case death is inevitable while in the other, it's possible.

According to your own logic religion sounds really corrupt.

Religion can be corrupted just like any other institution. You can put your money in an ethical bank or a fraudulent bank. That doesn't make the concept of banking corrupt. It just means that the institution has been taken over by corruption.

I'm an admirer of some native American cultures but to say they didn't know corruption before the Europeans is just BS. They had wars and conflicts of their own. The reason we know more about European corruption is because of the written record which the natives didn't have.

If there is no written record (which nobody would believe anyways since we're discussinghistory vs. story in the Bible) then what evidence do you have that it's B.S.? I recall reading about some native tribe that didn't come in contact with the outside world up until the last century or so when they were discovered/invaded by the Dutch and forced to adopt the corrupt Christian teachings here in the West. Similar methods were used in Canada to assimilate the natives via corrupted Catholic institutions.

Plus you didn't mention that the mandate Europeans used for killing and enslaving native American peoples was none other than the bible. From the Spaniards who arrived in 1492 to the white southerners in the 20th century, there are countless examples of Christianity being used to promote slavery and convince average believers that it was a good thing.

Are you referring to the Sephardic J3ws who came from Spain? I wonder how many people actually believe the Christopher Columbus story.... hrm.

If you want to see corruption and sadism among native American peoples just look at the Aztecs prior to the arrival of Europeans. They had ceremonies where they would kill hundreds of people at a time, including children, because of the prevailing belief that their gods needed to be satisfied with human blood.

Their reason to do so was because they considered themselves the "elected" people, the people of the Sun who had been chosen by the gods to feed them and were responsible for the continuity of the world. Hmmm... isn't that what Israel claims today and people still buy the B.S.? Interesting...

[ArmSurvival]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Life is based on a reward system. You would not work unless you were rewarded with at least food, drink and a place to rest/sleep. Those are the basics of life. Corruption is the result of being rewarded for doing something bad or harmful to others, directly or indirectly.

Don't all 3 Abrahamic religions have at their core the character of Abraham who was willing to slit his own child's throat because god told him he would be rewarded?

Don't all 3 Abrahamic religions in one form or another encourage (many times force) its followers to mutilate the genitals of their little children?

Aren't all suicide bombers religious people who find rewards for their sadistic behavior within the texts of their so-called holy books?

According to your own logic religion sounds really corrupt.

The Native Indians believed in many things that other cultures would see as absurd. They did not know of corruption until the Europeans brought with them all the things that began to destroy their culture.

I'm an admirer of some native American cultures but to say they didn't know corruption before the Europeans is just BS. They had wars and conflicts of their own. The reason we know more about European corruption is because of the written record which the natives didn't have.

Plus you didn't mention that the mandate Europeans used for killing and enslaving native American peoples was none other than the bible. From the Spaniards who arrived in 1492 to the white southerners in the 20th century, there are countless examples of Christianity being used to promote slavery and convince average believers that it was a good thing.

If you want to see corruption and sadism among native American peoples just look at the Aztecs prior to the arrival of Europeans. They had ceremonies where they would kill hundreds of people at a time, including children, because of the prevailing belief that their gods needed to be satisfied with human blood.

"Our culture is derivative of the natural resources. If our culture dies, the only reminants are its physical attributes, which will soon be dispersed to the natural environment. If that happens, there will be no trace of our living culture."
~ Stuart Harris, a Cayuse Indian & senior staff scientist

Basically what he's saying is we are born from the elements of the Earth. If we all die, our physical being returns back to nature and we simply cease to exist (as a culture).

Like the natives, if Armenians no longer live to give birth to other Armenians, we will no longer exist and that will ultimately be the end of our culture.

This seems like common sense and I agree. Notice that your comments exclude the concept of god or the supernatural as a fundamental element of life and culture. You're implying that culture is wholly based on material elements which makes you sound exactly like a non-believer.

[MrHyeSev]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

It is very easy to answer to the question asked
How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?
Answer: 100%

It's not only history, it's also the truth

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

My point in this regard is that you don't need to teach people superstition to compel them to do good things. Its more effective and healthy to teach people to do good things for pragmatic reasons than it is to tell them that you better do what Mr. Dictator says or else he'll burn you forever. This is false, dishonest and it nullifies the true virtue of morality and ethics. There's no virtue in being moral because you expect a reward for it somewhere down the line.

Life is based on a reward system. You would not work unless you were rewarded with at least food, drink and a place to rest/sleep. Those are the basics of life. Corruption is the result of being rewarded for doing something bad or harmful to others, directly or indirectly.

The more absurd and unrealistic a person's beliefs, the easier it is to corrupt them without them even noticing.

The Native Indians believed in many things that other cultures would see as absurd. They did not know of corruption until the Europeans brought with them all the things that began to destroy their culture.

"Our culture is derivative of the natural resources. If our culture dies, the only reminants are its physical attributes, which will soon be dispersed to the natural environment. If that happens, there will be no trace of our living culture."

~ Stuart Harris, a Cayuse Indian & senior staff scientist

Basically what he's saying is we are born from the elements of the Earth. If we all die, our physical being returns back to nature and we simply cease to exist (as a culture).

Like the natives, if Armenians no longer live to give birth to other Armenians, we will no longer exist and that will ultimately be the end of our culture.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

This is your belief of why armies controlled by Empires end up doing awful things as shown over and over throughout history (both biblical and modern historical)? You really believe that a person in power and authority would have any more or less influence depending on whether he/she claimed to be a god? The actions of military forces can't be blamed to that of civil society.

Stupid & cruel decisions by leaders are facilitated and tolerated by group psychology, namely the attitude that there is virtue in obeying the dictates of an overlord. There is no system which instills this attitude into people more so than religion. This can be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Communism, State religion, Fascism, etc. People with a regular moral compass become compelled to commit unthinkable acts which they would never do if they didn't think there was an entity beyond all earthly forces which supports them in their cruelty.

Let me add that although religion is easily used as a force for evil it can also be used to compel people to do good things. My point in this regard is that you don't need to teach people superstition to compel them to do good things. Its more effective and healthy to teach people to do good things for pragmatic reasons than it is to tell them that you better do what Mr. Dictator says or else he'll burn you forever. This is false, dishonest and it nullifies the true virtue of morality and ethics. There's no virtue in being moral because you expect a reward for it somewhere down the line.

If you want a good person to do bad things, that takes corruption.

The more absurd and unrealistic a person's beliefs, the easier it is to corrupt them without them even noticing.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Masses of Chinese were killed by Japanese soldiers who were taught that their leader was a god and therefore infallible. Another example of a morally backward religious society taught to obey the dictates of an overlord. Any cruelty becomes justified when you have supernatural sanction.

This is your belief of why armies controlled by Empires end up doing awful things as shown over and over throughout history (both biblical and modern historical)? You really believe that a person in power and authority would have any more or less influence depending on whether he/she claimed to be a god? The actions of military forces can't be blamed to that of civil society. The true cruelty Japanese civilians witnessed was when their cities were fire bombed then ultimately atomic bombed in response to the commands of the Japanese military. Trading the deaths of innocent lives for those of other innocent lives seems like the work of a true evil organization.

Are you telling me this story about Churchill to imply that secular people also commit horrible crimes? I already knew that. Being secular doesn't guarantee that a person will act good or bad. Let me emphasize my point with the following saying: Without religion, good people would do good things and bad people would do bad things. But if you want a good person to do bad things, that takes religion.

If you want a good person to do bad things, that takes corruption.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

How many Chinese died during WW2? Did they kill Jesus too?

Masses of Chinese were killed by Japanese soldiers who were taught that their leader was a god and therefore infallible. Another example of a morally backward religious society taught to obey the dictates of an overlord. Any cruelty becomes justified when you have supernatural sanction.

Since you brought it up, have you ever heard about the real holocaust (burnt offering) named Dresden? You should really give it a read but I'm sure you'll find yourself disgusted by how the 'allies' during WW2 could massacre an entire city of civilians which had nothing to do with war.

Yes, good ole' Winston Churchill gave the go ahead to disintegrate an entire city of civilians for sh!ts and giggles. There were no J3ws or Nazis there by the way.

Are you telling me this story about Churchill to imply that secular people also commit horrible crimes? I already knew that. Being secular doesn't guarantee that a person will act good or bad. Let me emphasize my point with the following saying: Without religion, good people would do good things and bad people would do bad things. But if you want a good person to do bad things, that takes religion.