How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

[Siggie]

You can't carbon date fossils... fossils contain no isotopes and absolutely zero organic matter. They are merely rocks which resemble large bones. In some cases, they find a single fossil that resembles a bone and literally "make up" what the rest of the body might have looked like and put their "creation" in a museum as fact. If that's not a joke, I don't know what is. The beginning of man is the beginning of the world but not the beginning of the earth.

Did you do an archeology minor when you were studying engineering? I don't think you met those learning objectives...
The decay of carbon (which is the most abundant element -pretty much in everything) is very well understood and predicted and therefore it is the carbon that is dated to determine the age. Furthermore, there have indeed been fossils which have been discovered that not only contain organic matter (which means what? leaves contain organic matter too), but SOFT TISSUE.

Here's just a few scholarly peer-reviewed research publications describing just a few of the more recent soft-tissue containing fossil discoveries. So yeah, I see your claim that fossils contain "absolutely zero organic matter" and raise you a bunch of scientific studies demonstrating exactly the opposite. It's amazing what you can find if you just look...

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/278/1722/3209.short

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/14/5138.short

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v392/n6674/abs/392383a0.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018210001471

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013334

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/276/1672/3429.short

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-earth-040610-133502

Astrophysics involves some rather complicated math. Astronomy is mostly observatory but uses statistics, error analysis, noise modeling, signal processing, and optics. So, yea... quite a bit more advanced than digging bone shaped rocks out of dirt and making imaginary animals out of them.

OMG. Psychology uses those things too! I've learned and used signal detection analysis, mixed-modeling, latent trait analysis, structural equation modeling, (latent) path analysis, doubly multivariate analysis of variance, etc. I guess that does mean I've studied a science after all. Woohoo!

This is why religion is anti-intellectual at its core - It claims to have the truth of the universe already.

This! THIS! THIS!!!

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

"The beginning of man is the beginning of the world but not the beginning of the earth." huh?

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

All that math leads to many versions of a string theory which is on far less sure footing scientifically speaking then paleontology. Carbon dating is a reliable measurement and the fossils are hard evidence. Proving the existence of a xxxone is far harder and much more trivial. You do not need to go as far back as the dinosaurs to prove the stuff in the bible is crackpot story. The existance of mamoth and sabertooth cats is more available and more recent plus the evidence includes things like cave paintings and even actual tissues all of which far predate what the bible says about the begining of the world. Religion has a problem with all sciences becaus they all show what a joke religion is.

You can't carbon date fossils... fossils contain no isotopes and absolutely zero organic matter. They are merely rocks which resemble large bones. In some cases, they find a single fossil that resembles a bone and literally "make up" what the rest of the body might have looked like and put their "creation" in a museum as fact. If that's not a joke, I don't know what is. The beginning of man is the beginning of the world but not the beginning of the earth.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

All that math leads to many versions of a string theory which is on far less sure footing scientifically speaking then paleontology. Carbon dating is a reliable measurement and the fossils are hard evidence. Proving the existence of a xxxone is far harder and much more trivial. You do not need to go as far back as the dinosaurs to prove the stuff in the bible is crackpot story. The existance of mamoth and sabertooth cats is more available and more recent plus the evidence includes things like cave paintings and even actual tissues all of which far predate what the bible says about the begining of the world. Religion has a problem with all sciences becaus they all show what a joke religion is.

Astrophysics involves some rather complicated math. Astronomy is mostly observatory but uses statistics, error analysis, noise modeling, signal processing, and optics. So, yea... quite a bit more advanced than digging bone shaped rocks out of dirt and making imaginary animals out of them.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Astrophysics and astronomy are not real sciences since they are not called math I guess all the religious people are math wizzes and we will never be able to understand them and their math based religionFor those who speak of judgment day you should know that everyday you live you are judged by those around you and not by some invisible ghost who loves you but is just itching to watch you burn in hell for all of eternity.

Astrophysics involves some rather complicated math. Astronomy is mostly observatory but uses statistics, error analysis, noise modeling, signal processing, and optics. So, yea... quite a bit more advanced than digging bone shaped rocks out of dirt and making imaginary animals out of them.

[MrHyeSev]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

What is religion? Man made rules
Christianity is apersonal relatinship with GOD

Can you provide an example of what you're talking about?





In all the debates I've seen between atheists and men of the cloth, I have never, ever heard anyone argue that Christianity is not a religion, so pretty much any religious person would disagree with you there. You and other bible enthusiasts say so many inconsistent things yet you claim to know some truth that the rest of us don't know about. And whenever someone challenges your ideas with a reasoned argument you tell them they don't understand and you do, even though you don't feel the need to actually explain any of your ideas. Wow, what could be more brilliant than that?





Most of the prison population is highly religious. The suicide bombing community is pretty much all religious. The genital mutilation community is exclusively religious.

Most people in advanced learning are atheists or simply deists. So we're supposed to believe that murderers and rapists in jail know the truth about the nature of existence while astrophysicists and astronomers are just dead wrong. This is why religion is anti-intellectual at its core - It claims to have the truth of the universe already.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Astrophysics and astronomy are not real sciences since they are not called math I guess all the religious people are math wizzes and we will never be able to understand them and their math based religionFor those who speak of judgment day you should know that everyday you live you are judged by those around you and not by some invisible ghost who loves you but is just itching to watch you burn in hell for all of eternity.

Can you provide an example of what you're talking about?





In all the debates I've seen between atheists and men of the cloth, I have never, ever heard anyone argue that Christianity is not a religion, so pretty much any religious person would disagree with you there. You and other bible enthusiasts say so many inconsistent things yet you claim to know some truth that the rest of us don't know about. And whenever someone challenges your ideas with a reasoned argument you tell them they don't understand and you do, even though you don't feel the need to actually explain any of your ideas. Wow, what could be more brilliant than that?





Most of the prison population is highly religious. The suicide bombing community is pretty much all religious. The genital mutilation community is exclusively religious.

Most people in advanced learning are atheists or simply deists. So we're supposed to believe that murderers and rapists in jail know the truth about the nature of existence while astrophysicists and astronomers are just dead wrong. This is why religion is anti-intellectual at its core - It claims to have the truth of the universe already.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

The bones don't exist. Fossils aren't bones. Their age can't be determined. It's all B.S. Most people think the skeletons they see in the museum are real bones.

Can you provide an example of what you're talking about?

People that don't live for the world are the one's who live for Christ & once again Christianity is not a religion.
Haykakan, do you know the definition of religion?

It are rules that are made by man, therefore Christianity is not a religion

In all the debates I've seen between atheists and men of the cloth, I have never, ever heard anyone argue that Christianity is not a religion, so pretty much any religious person would disagree with you there. You and other bible enthusiasts say so many inconsistent things yet you claim to know some truth that the rest of us don't know about. And whenever someone challenges your ideas with a reasoned argument you tell them they don't understand and you do, even though you don't feel the need to actually explain any of your ideas. Wow, what could be more brilliant than that?

Until you don't read the Bible & fully understand you won't understand.

Most of the prison population is highly religious. The suicide bombing community is pretty much all religious. The genital mutilation community is exclusively religious.

Most people in advanced learning are atheists or simply deists. So we're supposed to believe that murderers and rapists in jail know the truth about the nature of existence while astrophysicists and astronomers are just dead wrong. This is why religion is anti-intellectual at its core - It claims to have the truth of the universe already.

[MrHyeSev]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Until you don't read the Bible & fully understand you won't understand.

definition of religion http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion - it even mentions chrystianity as an example. Chrystianity like all other religions is made by man. Perhaps you follow your own brand but that is still made by man either way you look at it.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

definition of religion http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion - it even mentions chrystianity as an example. Chrystianity like all other religions is made by man. Perhaps you follow your own brand but that is still made by man either way you look at it.