Bush-Kerry Debate

[gevo]

If thats how you choose your candidates to support or not to support then I dont know what keeps your boat floatin'

I do hope you saw the humor in that.. if not, thats your personal problem.

I think you need to go back and re-read the reasons why some of us support Kerry. His speaking has substance, he show's what he wants to accomplish and how he's going to do it. Whereas aBush hasn't addressed what he would do if he was re-hired as President. You are falling in the right-wing spin world and i'm disspointed that you've fallen for it. Everything you've said about this election is verbatim from a right-wing spin doctor.

I am iliterate, please do outline his plan for me, and i will shut up. He has repeated himself more so than Bush, and i thaught Bush was bad enough. I have nothign to do with the "right-wing" as you accuse me of. Infact i have my own opinion on politicians, not politics though.. they differ, sadly not in reality.

obviously someone hasn't been paying attention...he couldn't outline his plan any better, and if you couldn't understand it then thats a personal problem you need to find a fix for.

Again, show me please, all i have heard him say is "my plan is better" "i will show you that i will not fail" and then he accused of Bush owning a timber company, and even hinted at him going to war for his own pocketbook.. that is low, stupid and a very emotional accusation to make. Bush has done as much good for the economy as any president would with a war, a recession and such attacks on the trade center, which ofcourse sent the airline industr into spin and literally hundreds of thousands of people lost there job, and this is being blamed on Bush. Please.

Again, get out of the nuthouse and fantasyland known as the aBush White House. Don't fall into the traps of the right-wing spinology.

And I still stand by my anaology "An Armenian voting for Bush, is like a Jew voting for Hitler"

No comment.

[gevo]

Now gevo, I may be missing something here, but you are Christian, are you not? And by Christian doctrine, is it not a sin to kill another human life? Now, you have claimed you will be voting for Bush already in another thread. Perhaps I am missing something, and I am off the mark, but would it not be hypocritical to vote for Bush - a man who has lied and thrown this country into a war it cannot get out of, and is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians - while at the same time being a devoted Christian? Is it okay to condone and vote for someone who engages in that behavior while at the same time being Christian? Or does this have to do with the belief that this war is because of the prophecy of Daniel and the end of days and that is why you support Bush? I am very curious.

I dont like war, and that infact should be superflous to say. only lunatics like war. I respect both candidates for future president, but i dont like either one of them.
As for your many questions regarding me a christian voting for Bush who has engaged in the killing of many people:
I am sure you have read the Bible, and you understand why Israel went to war so many times, i dont have time to list. Dont compare the reasons, compare the moral. I dont support killing people, but if Bush didnt take action, more people would have died. I am sure you people remember the mass graves of school children being unconvered all over Iraq, why doesnt anyone talk about thos? He was killing more of his own people per day then suicie bombers are killing US soldiers and Iraqi civilians today. In other words, i will myself engage in a war which is to ultimately help a nation come to peace.
In that sense, let me ask you a question, though the reason for going to war was different in WWI and WWII, would it have been beter if we did not go to war, and not fight for what was right in thos world wars?

[Anonymouse]

I dont like war, and that infact should be superflous to say. only lunatics like war. I respect both candidates for future president, but i dont like either one of them.
As for your many questions regarding me a christian voting for Bush who has engaged in the killing of many people:
I am sure you have read the Bible, and you understand why Israel went to war so many times, i dont have time to list. Dont compare the reasons, compare the moral. I dont support killing people, but if Bush didnt take action, more people would have died. I am sure you people remember the mass graves of school children being unconvered all over Iraq, why doesnt anyone talk about thos? He was killing more of his own people per day then suicie bombers are killing US soldiers and Iraqi civilians today. In other words, i will myself engage in a war which is to ultimately help a nation come to peace.
In that sense, let me ask you a question, though the reason for going to war was different in WWI and WWII, would it have been beter if we did not go to war, and not fight for what was right in thos world wars?

Arguing for what was 'right' in the world wars, or any war for that matter, is a matter of perspective, because unlike you and most of the world, I do not believe in the accidental version of history, and believe that there are reasons for why these wars were fought and why events in general occur. I'm sure you are familiar with it.

All States rely on the subservience of its people, and all wars are nothing more than aggression on another people, no matter what the State or the ideology. The "War is peace" slogan is Orwellian in all its effrontery, and is something the warmongers in the white house and the Neocons would have one believe.

I am not a pacifist. I believe in self-defense, and the right to act against aggression. Iraq in this case provided no aggression. As far as Saddam killing his own people, let's not forget it was again, the United States that put that man in power, so blaming Saddam is not valid, instead it reflects the moral depravity of America. If you are suggesting that because Saddam killed his own people and persecuted, we had to act to "save his people", that is missing the point. Do you know how many countries America would invade based on that? 'Liberating people' based on ideology is a silly reason to invade another country and bomb it to stone age. Based on the ideology of Communism, North Korea, China, and Cuba should invade the U.S. to 'free us' from the 'exploiting capitalist power'.

When I look at wars, I can only compare the reasons, for it is reasons that are tied to politics. Morals are not. Morals cannot be bended or made elastic, to say that one form of aggression was more 'just' than another. I do not need to go into the mystic natures of the World Wars, who and what funded them into existence, the lies and 'pretexts' used to start the wars, and the parties that benefited.

[Anonymouse]

Here is an overview of the economy and economics that the candidates will never tell you or talk about, and indeed, dark times lie ahead. For those familiar with economics, it is a must read.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/FJ14Dj01.html

[ckBejug]

I dont think in any one of these debates there was a clear winner, but i also do not see how people can claim "kerry was soo good" the guy repeated himself more than bush this time! plus, he looks like the Donkey from SHrek, that alone to me is a good reason not to vote for him... I have noticed as well that most, if not all of the peopl i know that are voting for Kerry, arent voting for him cause of ANYTHING he says, they dont even care about hat, so long as its not Bush..... so what Bush has bad public speaking skill,s hell he said so himself that his wife and daughters are certainly better than him at public speaking.. lol.. that was hilarious.. anywho.. Kerry is not only retarded, he has presented NO plan to back up his claims, he has only said this a million times if not more "my plan is better than Bush's" now.. please im not gonna vot e for someone just because he says that.. at least Bush has shown detailed worked out plans thus far, and i dont think the current economic state of the nation can be blamed on him.. that is rediculous!... anywho.. its too late for this debate... VOTE DONKEY EVERYONE!!!!! )

I do not understand all these people who say omg like Kerry totally is just telling us what he will do without telling us how he will be doing it. He has clearly outlined his plans, and he has clearly mentioned time and time again how and where he will be getting the money for his plans. What more could you want?!? The guy has 2 minutes to answer each question and yet you expect him to execute his entire plan of action to allay your fear that his plans will work? I know that we have his word about his plans and his current record as a Senator to go on and the rest we have to just have a little faith in him and how he will do the job right, but I think it's way better than Bush, whose shoddy record we have as a president. He did a terrible job the first time around and there is no way I'm going to let him have another go at it! I'm beginning to believe this report that dumb people like Bush. Or as the venerable Britney Spears said: "I think we should just trust the president in every decision he makes," she told CNN, "and we should just support that, and be faithful in what happens."

Stupid people love Bush
New study shows correlation between decline of IQ and rise of GOP


"Stupid people love Bush" new study proves According to the prestigious Southern California think tank, The Gluton Group, stupid people prefer President George W Bush over Senator John Kerry by a 4-to-1 margin. As Chief Resident Dr. Louis Friend characterized the results of the research, "the less intelligent you are, the more you like Bush." This landmark study, conducted over a 5 month period, involved 2400 likely voters bridging all economic stratas in the 17 states generally considered up for grabs on November 2nd. Participants were tested for intelligence, then asked to fill out a 12 page series of questions involving the Presidential candidates with results released earlier this week.

The consensus: the higher the IQ, the less people trust Bush and respect the job his administration has done. The lower the IQ, the more people admire his steadfastness. "It was pretty much a slam dunk. There's no nice way to say this. Dumb people like him. They think his unwavering nature is a positive personality trait. They even venerate him for never admitting mistakes, even when he's wrong. On the other hand, smart people think he's a lying bully. I mean, c'mon, you have a deserter accusing a decorated veteran of treason. Who's going to buy that besides stupid people?"

Preliminary results:
IQ Above 140: Kerry 80%, Bush 20%.
120-140: Kerry 65%, Bush 35%.
100-120: Kerry 54%, Bush 46%.
80-100: Bush 54%, Kerry 46%.
60-80: Bush 60%, Kerry 15%, Dale Earnhardt Jr. 25%.

Apparently Bush's good-evil, black-white philosophy resonates on an inverse relationship with higher education, whereas it became evident over the period of analysis that John Kerry's nuanced arguments are only understood by people who paid attention in any class above the 5th grade.

Doctor Friend elaborated: "It has to do with intellectual curiosity. Folks see Bush in front of a stream talking about the environment and they assume he's in favor of it, even though if you read his legislation, I'd be surprised to hear him endorse shade. This also explains why Bush gets away with pretending he doesn't know how the Senate works, allowing him to call Kerry a flip-flopper."

Friend released evidence that this type of disconnect exists across the board: education, foreign policy, the economy, post 9-11 security response and State Dinner entertainment choices. Also discovered was a direct correlation between the number of preset Country Western stations on car radios and Bush's approval rating. Dr. Friend attributes this phenomena to the simplicity inherent in the messages indigenous to both. Classical music listeners were preponderantly Kerry supporters, but surprisingly, on heavy metal, the two split down the middle.

Spotting a trend, Friend cautioned, "Because of the deterioration in public education, larger and larger segments of the population are creeping downward IQ-wise, cementing the hold Republicans have on the electorate." However, if the election were held today, Bush would hold a lead of 52-48 in the popular vote, but would be virtually tied in the Electoral College, which Bush supporters argue against because the word College angers them. When contacted, a Kerry spokesman just chuckled. No Bush spokesperson was made available for comment. It was also found that Ralph Nader supporters were the brightest of all political proponents tested, but Dr. Friend dismissed them as "too smart for their own good."

[Anonymouse]

I know that we have his word about his plans and his current record as a Senator to go on

Oh please, don't be so naive. And what's all this hang up with "plans". Phuck plans. They aren't gonna do shyt. Plans aren't going to stop the economic stagnation, for starters.

[ckBejug]

Oh please, don't be so naive. And what's all this hang up with "plans". Phuck plans. They aren't gonna do shyt. Plans aren't going to stop the economic stagnation, for starters.

Fine then, lets step out of reality for a second and play it your way. Since, according to you, it doesn't matter who we vote for, country's going to hell anyway, so I'd personally love to have as my President someone who can tell me what the hell is going on in English, rather than jibberish.

[steelers10]

screw the debate that was on last night...they say the same old bullsh!t everytime...you see one of them you've seen them all...as for programming last night the red sox-yanks series is where i was!

[jilbagh]

I am iliterate, please do outline his plan for me, and i will shut up.

http://www.johnkerry.com/plan/

Again, show me please, all i have heard him say is "my plan is better" "i will show you that i will not fail"

http://www.johnkerry.com/plan/

and then he accused of Bush owning a timber company, and even hinted at him going to war for his own pocketbook.. that is low, stupid and a very emotional accusation to make.

ummmm...his tax returns show that he had owned a timber company!!! http://www.factcheck.com you can also go to http://www.factcheck.org

Bush has done as much good for the economy as any president would with a war, a recession and such attacks on the trade center, which ofcourse sent the airline industr into spin and literally hundreds of thousands of people lost there job, and this is being blamed on Bush. Please.

Bush is the 1st President in 72 years to have lost jobs. And there have been many Presidents in recessions and in time of war. Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, and even Bush Sr. managed to create jobs in time of war and/or recession. Your argument has no substance.

And don't try to counter by saying he has created jobs since losing them. The jobs "created" pay $9-13,000 LESS than what they were making before. In places like Michigan and Ohio, people went from making $17/hour to $8/hour. These aren't real jobs "created". He went on saying how they person who lost their job would be given a chance to increase their education. Well, there are many that are out of college or have been out of school that are still waiting to break into the workforce. Those that are out of school and waiting for work are not included in the unemployment figures.

Bush can't acknowledge that any of the problems that the country has, from immigration to equal pay. He can't acknowledge the problem, admit a mistake, or say where he wants to lead the country.

[gevo]

Launch and Lead A New Era Of Alliances. The threat of terrorism demands alliances on a global scale - to utilize every available resource to get the terrorists before they can strike us. Kerry-Edwards will lead a coalition of the able - because no force on earth is more able than the United States and its Allies.

If this is a reason to vote for him, then it is as good of a reason to vote for Bush, he gave the world nations plenty of time to chose if they would allie with us, or if they will not.. Each pursuing their own agenda, decided accordingly.. Bush gave plenty of time for the UN to execute its "inspections" why was the UN continuously and in some sense perpetually, being blocked from inspections... what does that tell us?

Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To Meet New Threats. Kerry-Edwards will ensure that our forces are fully prepared for the dangerous and vital missions they may face, and that America's military always remains second to none. We must extend our capabilities to better face new threats of terrorism, failed states and homeland defense.

This is simply a joke, another better reason to vote for Bush, he has accelerated and utilized the military and its highest capabilities, more so than any other president.. and military will be modernized regardless.. there is plenty of competition in private industries... When and who integrated he last budget cut for defens and military???

Deploy All That Is In America's Arsenal. The war on terror cannot be won by military might alone. Kerry - Edwards will deploy all the forces in America's arsenal - our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, and the appeal of our values and ideas - to make America more secure and prevent a new generation of terrorists from emerging.

More worthless ranting.. but, i do wish we had more allies, and democracy worked better than it has in thje recent past.. but what about the current administrations democratic abilities is not considered enough effort of democracy compared to that of this worthless stuff Kerry says.. does this mean that Kerry has a great magical way to make all world leaders think the same way> thus creating a great utopia and everyone will agree and we will all go home happy and fulfilled?? PLEASE!

Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On Mideast Oil. To secure our full independence and freedom, we must free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil. By tapping American ingenuity, we can achieve that goal while growing our economy and protecting our environment. Kerry-Edwards will create a new energy and conservation trust fund to accelerate the development of innovative technologies, such as more efficient cars and trucks, the development of biofuels, and creating clean, secure, hydrogen-based energy. Kerry-Edwards will also expand the supply of natural gas, assure 20% of electricity comes from renewable sources by 2020, and make clean coal part of our energy solution.

In all this current hassle with world and domestic terror afairs, Bush has done his share in accelerating the hydrogen vehicle success... infact soem shell stations near and around washington dc will be fitted with new hydrogen refill stations for ford and chevy coming out with new hydgrogen powered vehicles. The American oil dependancy on the middle east at the moment is infact a smart move, by tapping into our own resources, we will drain it before we can supply enough in reserve. Also, in providing the Middle East with the luxury of the revenuce from the oil, then we are helping creat a more or less "benign" relation between the Arab world, and US, afterall, if we do not purchase the oil from them.. then they dont have much money to spend, they hate us nonetheless,, because America is everythign they would want to be, yet cant, and because everythign they have is due to the ability of the industrialized nations, such as the US and other western nations.

Create New Jobs, Strengthen the Middle Class, and Ensure Educational Opportunity

No comment on this stupid and blind statement

Reward Companies that Create Jobs in America. The Kerry-Edwards plan will end tax breaks for companies that move jobs overseas and use the savings to reduce the corporate tax rate by 5 percent, cutting taxes for 99 percent of corporations. The Kerry-Edwards plan also includes a New Jobs Tax Credit for new hiring in manufacturing, other businesses affected by outsourcing, and small businesses.

Seriously, this is a great idea, but you cant just print money to use for what this tax cut is currently paying for.. especially when your not going to raise other taxes, and increas spening on the current war to make it faster..

Provide High-Quality Health Care, Improve Education, and Strengthen Families

Just stupid political talk... has no backing, or meaning to me.

Everything else he says, though i cant say i dotn agree with, i must say tat in agreeing that this is good, and this is a good reason to vote for him.. then we must also agree that Bush, again in all the other affairs, has done his fair share in these fields.. such as the healthcare costs, education.. ect... plus, the local state government has more power and control over education than the federal wants to have.. lol.. so, like i hav said.. this is in no way a plan, i need to see schematic diagram of where he will get his money, and where it will be used.. and on top of that, he needs to provide HOW he is going to do things.. this is a plan, not merely aying that he will do it. So, again, i stand toa sk.. someone show me his plan, how he will lower taxes, give healthcare to all children, educate everybody, lower gas prices, and all the rest of the inconsistanices i saw in his "plan"......