Nature of God

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Anonymouse You are trying too hard to justify yourself that "you're right", since this is about who posts the last post, isn't it?

There goes Mr. Mouse's four hundredth knowledge claim about the motivation of an individual external to his own psyche. Yeah, man, I only post to get an ego boost, and all I care about is getting the last word. Nothing else matters to me.

Which goes to prove my point that this was never intended as a discourse but an ego tug of war. It remains, you deviated from alot of the points, name called, and confused the issue over and under, I don't mind though.

Let's see. You went off on tangents regarding evolutionary theory, big bang theory, geological timescales, etc., etc., etc. Who's confusing issues here?

When you you made misunderstood statements about reason and faith we dwelled on that for more than half of the conversation, yet now you coldly deny has having ever confused the two. Like I said, this is to be expected. So don't let me make the last post, join in.

Reason is the means by which the human mind explains the observations it makes in the world. It is one means by which we come to have knowledge. Faith is what a person uses to invent an explanation for that which he can not explain using reason. It is a guess and does not constitute a means by which one might attain knowledge. I am either right or I am wrong; I am most certainly not confused. I have backed up my position many times with examples of how faith can lead to contradicting claims with no means of picking truth out of either. You have been able to provide us with no refutation of this, saying only that all faiths have a lot in common. This does not change the fact that they also make competing claims that cannot both be true. You have failed to provide any reason to believe that faith can produce knowledge. If you still think you can, go ahead and give it another try.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname There goes Mr. Mouse's four hundredth knowledge claim about the motivation of an individual external to his own psyche. Yeah, man, I only post to get an ego boost, and all I care about is getting the last word. Nothing else matters to me.

This is based on your behavior displayed on this thread, and nothing more. And when something is pointed you respond with "there goes another knowledge claim".

Originally posted by loseyourname Let's see. You went off on tangents regarding evolutionary theory, big bang theory, geological timescales, etc., etc., etc. Who's confusing issues here?

Now he tries to put the blame on me for what was his initial name calling and insecurity.

Originally posted by loseyourname Reason is the means by which the human mind explains the observations it makes in the world. It is one means by which we come to have knowledge. Faith is what a person uses to invent an explanation for that which he can not explain using reason. It is a guess and does not constitute a means by which one might attain knowledge. I am either right or I am wrong; I am most certainly not confused. I have backed up my position many times with examples of how faith can lead to contradicting claims with no means of picking truth out of either. You have been able to provide us with no refutation of this, saying only that all faiths have a lot in common. This does not change the fact that they also make competing claims that cannot both be true. You have failed to provide any reason to believe that faith can produce knowledge. If you still think you can, go ahead and give it another try.

We don't "invent faith" Mr. Loser, it is part and parcel of human nature. Everything that we "know" is a guess, whether its your assertion of trying to determine how old the earth is, or whether you believe in evolutionary theory.

I myself have backed up my claims on how reasoning can lead to faulty conclusions.

As for your assertion on me "failing to provide any reason to believe that faith can produce knowledge", I have already done that. That was the purpose of all my examples of how we move about more by faith in our everydear endeavors than by reason, and my examples of business deals, love, and the existence of other places on earth are based on our willingness to believe. We reason only to get to faith, is a better way of putting it.

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Everything that we "know" is a guess.

Juxtapose this with the your next statement to get an idea of what I'm dealing with here.

As for your assertion on me "failing to provide any reason to believe that faith can produce knowledge", I have already done that. That was the purpose of all my examples of how we move about more by faith in our everydear endeavors than by reason, and my examples of business deals, love, and the existence of other places on earth are based on our willingness to believe. We reason only to get to faith, is a better way of putting it.

All right, you have pointed out how we use faith to make a guess. I suppose that's a start. You still have not pointed out a way that faith can give us knowledge.

[Anonymouse]

We have faith that we revolve around the sun. We have faith that someone loves us. We have faith that we have landed on the moon. We have faith that what someone told us is the truth. We have faith that there is gravity. Yet in our everyday lives we move about as if this is knowledge. Like I said, what can you point to that is not somehow in some fashion based on what we believe?

[dusken]

Originally posted by Anonymouse We have faith that we revolve around the sun. We have faith that someone loves us. We have faith that we have landed on the moon. We have faith that what someone told us is the truth. We have faith that there is gravity. Yet in our everyday lives we move about as if this is knowledge. Like I said, what can you point to that is not somehow in some fashion based on what we believe?

This is absurd. One can point to mathematics. You are posting out of ignorance.

[Anonymouse]

Yes we can also point to mathematics regarding time. Your point? Our time measurement is arbitrary. I suggest you make more of an effort than just stating "this is absurd".

[dusken]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Yes we can also point to mathematics regarding time. Your point? Our time measurement is arbitrary. I suggest you make more of an effort than just stating "this is absurd".

It does not matter. The solutions to all time related formulas are significant even though they are relative to us. All units of measurement, including distance or volume are arbitrary. That does not take the validity out of the numbers. I will replce the words "this is absurd." How about we do not have faith that we revolve around the sun. We know we do. The numbers are there and they cannot be argued with. You are arguing the way many people of faith do: with incredulity derived from ignorance. If you truly cared to know, all the numbers that cannot be argued with are available to you. You just assume people accept it with faith because they have not been presented to you in your limited schooling.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by dusken It does not matter. The solutions to all time related formulas are significant even though they are relative to us. All units of measurement, including distance or volume are arbitrary. That does not take the validity out of the numbers. I will replce the words "this is absurd." How about we do not have faith that we revolve around the sun. We know we do. The numbers are there and they cannot be argued with. You are arguing the way many people of faith do: with incredulity derived from ignorance. If you truly cared to know, all the numbers that cannot be argued with are available to you. You just assume people accept it with faith because they have not been presented to you in your limited schooling.

I never assumed people accept it on faith, in fact it's a given that whatever we accept we are placing faith in that thing we are accepting. You don't have to like it.

[dusken]

Originally posted by Anonymouse I never assumed people accept it on faith, in fact it's a given that whatever we accept we are placing faith in that thing we are accepting. You don't have to like it.

Yes, and we can all wake up tomorrow into reality and 1+1=4. There is no value in making such arguements. Especially since Descartes took care of most of that a long time ago.

[Anonymouse]

I still see no point with what you're saying. No one denies mathematics, and the logic of it. Of course applying it to anything else is arbitrary, such as measurements in meters or feet, or miles, etc., etc.