Evolution and Religion

[loseyourname]

If all you're saying is that we don't know for certain that one species was generated from another, and there is a possibility that each was individually created, all right, I'll grant you that. Given naturaly selection shows the laws of physics alone can do it, I don't see any reason to resort to supernatural explanation. But if you want to, because it makes you feel better that it was God doing it, hey, knock yourself out.

[Anonymouse]

This is not a "need" to resort to supernatural explanations. I am merely arguing like a scientist here relying on evidence.

I argued that evolution can not come about through randomness, and mutations. That is all. I am not "offering" any "alternative", I am merely demanding evidence for the scientific claim, as any scientist should be.

From that being said, artificial selection remains on contradiction to natural selection.

[dusken]

Originally posted by Anonymouse This is not a "need" to resort to supernatural explanations. I am merely arguing like a scientist here relying on evidence.

I argued that evolution can not come about through randomness, and mutations. That is all. I am not "offering" any "alternative", I am merely demanding evidence for the scientific claim, as any scientist should be.

From that being said, artificial selection remains on contradiction to natural selection.

Actually you are arguing that it may not come through randomness and mutations.

You have not shown that it is a contradiction. You have asserted that it may not be representative.

And yes, you have been offering an alternative. You are arguing for the support of design. That is an alternative. You are treating it like a default and if ever there was a logical fallacy, it would be that.

[dusken]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Propose an alternative? Isn't it obvious what the alternative is? Creation. A finch is a finch. Adaptational differences don't make it anything else.

As for close anatomical relationship, for all we know God was perfecting his creatures, creating one with the blueprint of the previous. Who knows, I don't claim to know, why does science assume it alone knows?

[dusken]

Originally posted by Anonymouse
So if evolution could not take place with randomness, then all you have left is design, which would require a creator with intelligent design and purpose. In fact, the mathematicians found that mathematically evolution could never have begun nor continued through randomness.

Murray Eden showed that it would be impossible for even a single ordered pair of genes to be produced by DNA mutations in the bacteria, E. coli,—with 5 billion years in which to produce it! His estimate was based on 5 trillion tons of the bacteria covering the planet to a depth of nearly an inch during that 5 billion years. He then explained that the genes of E. coli contain over a trillion (10^12) bits of data. That is the number 10 followed by 12 zeros. *Eden then showed the mathematical impossibility of protein forming by chance. He also reported on his extensive investigations into genetic data on hemoglobin (red blood cells).

Hemoglobin has two chains, called alpha and beta. A minimum of 120 mutations would be required to convert alpha to beta. At least 34 of those changes require changeovers in 2 or 3 nucleotides. Yet, *Eden pointed out that, if a single nucleotide change occurs through mutation, the result ruins the blood and kills the organism!

*George Wald stood up and explained that he had done extensive research on hemoglobin also,—and discovered that if just ONE mutational change of any kind was made in it, the hemoglobin would not function properly. For example, the change of one amino acid out of 287 in hemoglobin causes sickle-cell anemia. A glutamic acid unit has been changed to a valine unit—and, as a result, 25% of those suffering with this anemia die.

A seed is a collection of information such as DNA, that describes processes that when carried out produce an end result. That end result could be a bird, a human being, plant, a planet or even a universe. When you look at the outline of a cloud, the branches of a tree, the path of a river, or the veins in your arms, you are looking at fractal geometry. 11, 22, and 33 are precise numbers. They are also multiples of 11. These numbers are encoded within our DNA. This is only the result of intelligent thought.

We have 33 vertebrae and they are grouped under the names cervical, thoracic, lumbar, sacral, and coccygeal. Why is 33 one of the most sacred numbers in Freemasonry that a Mason can attain to? Why is the 33rd parallel such an important place on our planet and why have most major events taken place along the 33rd parallel?

http://www.daywilliams.com/masons_mystery_33rd_parallel.html

Our skull has 22 bones. Our ribs have 11 bones. This is surely not a result of randomness, or is it?

You show this as evidence for design.

Sorry, my friend, but you have no idea what you are arguing.

[Anonymouse]

Really?

Murray Eden showed beyond a doubt that mutations randomally occuring as the backbone of evolution are mathemematically improbable.

You don't have to like it, but you can't treat evolution like a religion.

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Really?

Murray Eden showed beyond a doubt that mutations randomally occuring as the backbone of evolution are mathemematically improbable.

You don't have to like it, but you can't treat evolution like a religion.

Provide us with his calculations, or a link. I don't care if you already provided one, just do it again.

[dusken]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Really?

Murray Eden showed beyond a doubt that mutations randomally occuring as the backbone of evolution are mathemematically improbable.

You don't have to like it, but you can't treat evolution like a religion.

Sorry, my good sir, but that is not a response to what I wrote and quoted.

[loseyourname]

By the way, showing that something is beyond a doubt improbable doesn't show it to be any more improbable than competing hypotheses. If it is the most probable, it is the one to be accepted.

[Anonymouse]

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/20hist12.htm

It's an interesting read if anything.