Armenian Eyes Wide Shut

[anileve]

You haven't lived in any other country long enough to form just conclusions. Plus all of your views will always be stated from a male point of view, which is a set back in understanding the magnitude of situations related to the cases I've described above. Empathy is something you'll never be able to achieve, unless you step into another man's shoes. You are not willing to do so, thus your views will always be one sided.

The two cultures couldn't be more different, but there is only one thing which really matters to me. In one you have to conform to the conventional lifestyle and blend in with the society, in the other you can be an individual and create your own path. Which one do you think is morally appropriate?

[Inna]

I have heard the same stories you have, Anileve. Almost every person that me and my sisters grew up with and are the same ages as us(19-24) are all married with kids I went into a complete shock that they have married soo young, and here we are thinking about college, grad school, and a career and then if all goes well marriage. I'm going to Russia in 2 weeks and I have been excited but when my mom told me that all my relatives will be wanting to "hook" me up with a few of they young men around I started to panic. I kept telling my mom that I'm only 19 and shes says that they all know that and think its the perfect age
And the story about the young woman who isnt able to conceive..the same thing happened with my grandfather's first wife, she couldnt have kids so he left her and married another woman(my grandmother). Of course back in those days there was no such thing as horomone treatment so if you wanted kids you just kept going from one woman to another until one of them was able to give you a child, preferably a son. But can you really blame them for wanting a child or grandchild of their own?? Its a big deal, especially in Armenia to have someone carry down your name.
I am greatful every day that I have the opprotunity to live such a free life. And I say free because it really is free, because I'm the one who gets to decide what I want to major in, I get to decide what I want to do with my own money, I decide when and if I want to get married, I decide what I want to do with my life. You cant say the same for most people, especially women, living in Armenia.

[Anonymouse]

You haven't lived in any other country long enough to form just conclusions. Plus all of your views will always be stated from a male point of view, which is a set back in understanding the magnitude of situations related to the cases I've described above. Empathy is something you'll never be able to achieve, unless you step into another man's shoes. You are not willing to do so, thus your views will always be one sided.

The two cultures couldn't be more different, but there is only one thing which really matters to me. In one you have to conform to the conventional lifestyle and blend in with the society, in the other you can be an individual and create your own path. Which one do you think is morally appropriate?

I forgot, I'm the eternal oppressor male and I don't understand because I'm slow and I can't understand, and Armenian culture is backward and evil. My mistake, I should have kept my foot out of the puddle of the thread. Thanks for warning me about the deep waters.

[Inna]

to make them fit in this broad generalization that characterizes Armenian society "backwards" for not being "Western enough" ( whatever that means ), is silly to me, and lo and behold, marriage, family, children are equivalent to suffering. While no one disagrees with the sad state of affairs in that country, that hardly merits trying to label it as "bad".

Its not that its backwards or that marriage, family and kids is a bad thing its just that these women are so young that they dont even know who they are as an individual yet they are already getting married and creating this union with someone else when they havent even "discovered" themselves. And this only applies to women because men are the ones who go looking for their wife when they are ready to have a family but the woman usually has no say whether she is ready or not. These women deserve to have an education, they deserve the opprotunity to decide whether they want a career first then family or vice versa or just one of them without being looked down upon.

[Anonymouse]

Its not that its backwards or that marriage, family and kids is a bad thing its just that these women are so young that they dont even know who they are as an individual yet they are already getting married and creating this union with someone else when they havent even "discovered" themselves. And this only applies to women because men are the ones who go looking for their wife when they are ready to have a family but the woman usually has no say whether she is ready or not. These women deserve to have an education, they deserve the opprotunity to decide whether they want a career first then family or vice versa or just one of them without being looked down upon.

No one denies that, however, there is a certain tone that is carried in the criticism that evokes some thought. Certainly everyone deserves an education, doesn't mean they get it or will get it. That is not the point. In that country, it doesn't mean anything. They all go to school. What's your point about "getting an education"? That part is pointless. A degree doesn't mean anything there, for man or a woman. The criticism of culture has nothing to do with the conditions that are caused precisely by the breakdown of the country economically and politically. Since there is no opportunity, one either gets married or becomes a hore. There is no third road for becoming a scientist or whatever. And at this point, I would say the more Armenians pop babies the better, since this precise breakdown of the country economically and politically has stifled the birth rate, and emigration has increased, and there is a demographic implosion. Perhaps it's wiser to view things economically, as opposed to the same tired viewpoint of how oppressive society is.

[Inna]

No one denies that, however, there is a certain tone that is carried in the criticism that evokes some thought. Certainly everyone deserves an education, doesn't mean they get it or will get it. That is not the point. In that country, it doesn't mean anything. They all go to school. What's your point about "getting an education"? That part is pointless. A degree doesn't mean anything there, for man or a woman. The criticism of culture has nothing to do with the conditions that are caused precisely by the breakdown of the country economically and politically. Since there is no opportunity, one either gets married or becomes a hore. There is no third road for becoming a scientist or whatever. And at this point, I would say the more Armenians pop babies the better, since this precise breakdown of the country economically and politically has stifled the birth rate, and emigration has increased, and there is a demographic implosion. Perhaps it's wiser to view things economically, as opposed to the same tired viewpoint of how oppressive society is.

I dont mean an education in the sense of school and getting a degree, what I ment is that they deserve the right to know that life doesnt necessarily have to be one way and one way only, they deserve the right to know that what they believe in and what they think is important too and that they have the right to speak out.
Your right that the more armenian women have babies then the better it is for Armenian culture..but thats only to an extinct...what good is an Armenian if all he or she does is just bring babies into this world from one after the other...they are only able to help the future survival of Armenia as a nation if they go further in their life and go into politics, create businesses, study science and arts, so on and so forth

[Anonymouse]

I dont mean an education in the sense of school and getting a degree, what I ment is that they deserve the right to know that life doesnt necessarily have to be one way and one way only, they deserve the right to know that what they believe in and what they think is important too and that they have the right to speak out.
Your right that the more armenian women have babies then the better it is for Armenian culture..but thats only to an extinct...what good is an Armenian if all he or she does is just bring babies into this world from one after the other...they are only able to help the future survival of Armenia as a nation if they go further in their life and go into politics, create businesses, study science and arts, so on and so forth

Err, politics is what caused this mess in the first place. Trying to stay out of it, and furthering themselves in the other fields mentions is the way to go.

[Tres Bien]

[QUOTE]

I have heard the same stories you have, Anileve. Almost every person that me and my sisters grew up with and are the same ages as us(19-24) are all married with kids I went into a complete shock that they have married soo young, and here we are thinking about college, grad school, and a career and then if all goes well marriage. I'm going to Russia in 2 weeks and I have been excited but when my mom told me that all my relatives will be wanting to "hook" me up with a few of they young men around I started to panic. I kept telling my mom that I'm only 19 and shes says that they all know that and think its the perfect age
And the story about the young woman who isnt able to conceive..the same thing happened with my grandfather's first wife, she couldnt have kids so he left her and married another woman(my grandmother). Of course back in those days there was no such thing as horomone treatment so if you wanted kids you just kept going from one woman to another until one of them was able to give you a child, preferably a son. But can you really blame them for wanting a child or grandchild of their own?? Its a big deal, especially in Armenia to have someone carry down your name.

Isnt it a big deal everywhere?
Its not like people are brainless in armenia. There are plenty of inteliegent educated people like any other place, people make personal desicsions. Now sociaity is a bit harder one you when it comes to family buissness and having kids in armenia.But if you refuse what the sociaity tells you, or you're relatives , and want would afterall want to stay with your wife though she cant have kids, that is up to yourself to decide(espeically of your a man, the chances are higher no one will oppose you) No one can force the man to leave his wife.

I am greatful every day that I have the opprotunity to live such a free life. And I say free because it really is free, because I'm the one who gets to decide what I want to major in, I get to decide what I want to do with my own money, I decide when and if I want to get married, I decide what I want to do with my life. You cant say the same for most people, especially women, living in Armenia.

IN armenia its the same thing. You can decided what you want to do wuith your life.The only differents is , people have no money to do what they want.

ANd not everone has money in USA either, or Europe so they can do what want or even get the education they deserve!

[xBaron Dants]

Well, I think we have now reached the point where everything's exaggerated. Armenia is not what you make it out to be, and America and the "Western world" which we sooooo strive Armenia to be in is not what you made it out to be either. You brought one example, I'll bring another. A girl I volunteered with in Armenia is 21 years old, is graduating this year from the faculty of theology, and is not even thinking about marriage. Or will we just single her out as an exception because she doesn't fit in with your exception? A lot of it has to do with families. You always bring up stories about "backward" Armenians in your end of the world, and I found no similarities between them, and the Armenians in my end of the world.

The hores of the rich people which you pointed out, anileve, are not part of what people in Armenia believe "real" values are. They're values of the "nouveau riche", which was of course brought on by the great Americans' pressures to switch to capitalism ASAP. Yes, I am well aware that the Americans only did so to encourage Armenians to be truly FREE, as that is what Americans always do... The difference between the hores of the rich in Armenia and the hores of the rich in America is very obvious. It is not that, in America, they are ethically more developped and the rich refuse to do such things. I'm sorry to reveal this, but Americans also have their flaws. It has more to do with Armenia being such a small country, that everyone in Yerevan knows everyone else, and keeping secrets is just much harder.

Other than that, there are many social problems in Armenia, which there is no use disagreeing with. Education about STDs, protection, yevayln, is still lacking, though I've read of a few organizations who are making strides in that direction. I'd rather go and work with them though, than sit here and you know, b!tch and complain about it like everybody else does.

[Anonymouse]

Well, I think we have now reached the point where everything's exaggerated. Armenia is not what you make it out to be, and America and the "Western world" which we sooooo strive Armenia to be in is not what you made it out to be either. You brought one example, I'll bring another. A girl I volunteered with in Armenia is 21 years old, is graduating this year from the faculty of theology, and is not even thinking about marriage. Or will we just single her out as an exception because she doesn't fit in with your exception? A lot of it has to do with families. You always bring up stories about "backward" Armenians in your end of the world, and I found no similarities between them, and the Armenians in my end of the world.

The hores of the rich people which you pointed out, anileve, are not part of what people in Armenia believe "real" values are. They're values of the "nouveau riche", which was of course brought on by the great Americans' pressures to switch to capitalism ASAP. Yes, I am well aware that the Americans only did so to encourage Armenians to be truly FREE, as that is what Americans always do... The difference between the hores of the rich in Armenia and the hores of the rich in America is very obvious. It is not that, in America, they are ethically more developped and the rich refuse to do such things. I'm sorry to reveal this, but Americans also have their flaws. It has more to do with Armenia being such a small country, that everyone in Yerevan knows everyone else, and keeping secrets is just much harder.

Other than that, there are many social problems in Armenia, which there is no use disagreeing with. Education about STDs, protection, yevayln, is still lacking, though I've read of a few organizations who are making strides in that direction. I'd rather go and work with them though, than sit here and you know, b!tch and complain about it like everybody else does.

Two thumbs up!!!!