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Socialism. your thoughts?

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Anonymouse
    It thrives on collectivity and mass mindedness. It is, quite precisely, one of the worst ... abominations unleashed on man as it caused the most destruction ...
    hm - I would think your refering to (organized) religion here

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    • #12
      Originally posted by winoman
      hm - I would think your refering to (organized) religion here
      Not really. In the 20th century alone political systems caused the death of roughly 200 million people. So much for earthly utopias.
      Achkerov kute.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by Anonymouse
        Not really. In the 20th century alone political systems caused the death of roughly 200 million people. So much for earthly utopias.
        You falsely blame "political systems" when in fact these incidents almost always/invariably were a result of extreme socio-political change and upheaval (with again severe/unusual internal and external forces being manifested that drove/allowed/nurtured aberrent environments and subsequant [mass and individual] behaviors). There is little sense in an analysis of such things in some static context or any reason to conclude that these events/deaths etc were the result of one particualr "political system" or such - the events - the causation - were all due to tremendous change/upheaval (and this is also true going back to such things such as the Crusades, various "barbarian" invasions, European expansion to the New World and such throughout history). If you are a history major and really are going to produce anything worthwhile you cannot take such a fixed perspective. Your "analysis" of the cause of these deaths is essentially meaningless - tells us nothing - you really must do better - perhaps you are not studying hard enough. Your explanation (blame) is overly simplistic and not useful for any serious analysis - but if you are content with such perhaps you will (one day when you deem it time to join the workforce and be responsible for your own care and feeding etc - and enter reality as it were...) be able to get a job selling Amway or filling potholes in our streets and such - something more useful and relevant then you are normally used to doing.

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        • #14
          I wonder what the total is on the lives taken in the name of religion....

          As bad as communism ended up being economically, the people (in general) were much more intelligent than say...here? It was not a bad system for the society. Contrary to what you may think, people were very much independent thinkers, they just knew when to keep their mouth shut.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by ArmoBarbi
            I wonder what the total is on the lives taken in the name of religion....

            As bad as communism ended up being economically, the people (in general) were much more intelligent than say...here? It was not a bad system for the society. Contrary to what you may think, people were very much independent thinkers, they just knew when to keep their mouth shut.
            Yes - religion - seems to be a (negative) motivator (in terms of mans/mankinds humanity to other men/women/chldren and what have you) - much do most organized religions seperating this idea of believers - as somehow being more worthy - then those who are not - us versus them - versus "we are family" ....my sister and brother make three (whatever the lryics are to that song...don't remember exactly)...catchy though...

            Oh on Communism - have to disagree. It is a bad system. To punish inovation - free expression - freedom on general - regardless of health care or education (and communist education might be techical superior but in terms of truth [in history and elsewhere etc] - no - not good) - truthfully - who could wish such on anyone. There might be some nostalgia - because of tough times and the fact that many people are weak/insecure - but there is really nothing positive to be said concerning communism and the indiviual or to humanity at large. Socialism suffers from some of the same issues - but then again nothing is perfect and perhaps there are evenues to implement some concepts of such without negating the human spirit and the things that we tend to value. I think the jury is still out on socialism and capitalism - and what balances of such may work in the long haul...but Communism is a no go - no way - no how. I don't think (real thinking and feeling person - who has experienced such) would ever choose to go back (even if the humor was better etc)

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            • #16
              I never said it is a good system, and if you read my previous posts I don't see how you could get this idea. I won't read any further in your post.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by ArmoBarbi
                communism ... It was not a bad system for the society. Contrary to what you may think, people were very much independent thinkers, they just knew when to keep their mouth shut.
                ? mmm

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                • #18
                  FOR THE SOCIETY it is one aspect

                  Do you argue that Communism was bad for the society compared to any other tried system? I was born into a Communist society. I was raised by people who grew up in the arms of Communism. It produced wonderful, ethical, intelligent people who value education and being contributing members of their community (much better than any other kind I have ever met).

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by ArmoBarbi
                    FOR THE SOCIETY it is one aspect

                    Do you argue that Communism was bad for the society compared to any other tried system? I was born into a Communist society. I was raised by people who grew up in the arms of Communism. It produced wonderful, ethical, intelligent people who value education and being contributing members of their community (much better than any other kind I have ever met).
                    So you are arguing that it is a good system?

                    I'm confused...actually - no I understand your points - its OK - and good points there - but I might caution that you probably were only exposed to a certain set of folks and a certain slivce of your society. And though I can't speak from direct experience - I have talked at length with folks who lived most of their (adult) lives under Communisim - one aquiantance of mine (a friened of friends) whom I see once in a while and we always have long talks about life in the Soviet Union (and comparsion/contrast with here - etc) - well he was one of these high up scientists at one of those unamed facilites etc etc and so on and so forth - and he even lost all his (for Russia) significant savings with the Yelstin devaluation of the Ruble - and we have talked great lengths about the corruption - and corruption of spirit - and disincentives for innovation and productivity, intense buearacracy and inefficiencies - and so on and so forth under Communism - and even though he prospered greatly under Communism - really as much as any but some Party bigwig I imagine - and lost everything under Capitalism - well - he would never choose to go back - ever. I know several of like mind...including one friend (Lithuanian) - quite a bit older then I - who lived under Stalin - yup....and under Hitler too (briefly during WWII as a young boy) - and he has stated - very firmly - a number of times - how everyone prefered occupation by the Nazis over Communist rule (there you go Mouse! ) - true...and my what a firm anti-Commmunist he is - and one can just imagine why...so while your points are valid - and I appreciate that you shared such with us - it is good to know - and we should be aware of such things - and I can understand how what you say is true - I suspect that you were somehow insulated from the darker side of the implementation of Communism - one that is as evil and anti-humanistic as practically anything devised by man (IMO). And while the Soviet Union did manage some great and impressive things - in terms of technology, industry and achievement (as a nation) - in no way can these deeds ever make up for the intense crimes (and perversions) commited. Now many might say the same thing about Capitalism - and OK - I admit that one can legitimately take this view - but IMO the matter of degree is so severe to put the critique into entirely different categories. Sorry for the long windedness...

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                    • #20
                      Ok, I didn't read the whole thing (I'm sorry) I know what you are talking about. I am not a person who only knows of what she has been personally exposed to.

                      Not to mention that I know many people who feel negatively about Communism - including my family. I don't think any Soviet LIKES Communism. It was very corrupt and economically it was poison for the republics. I would never want to see it repeated.

                      I only said that the culture we grew up with was good, which it was. It produced great people, even though the people were not very happy. (It is a seporate issue)

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