Islam by the end of 21st century

[CatWoman]

Prior to the 3rd century AD, no, it wasn't. There was an earth and a human race before there was a Christianity, you know?

I think we both know that, but Europe wasn't really Europe back then (ecnomical/technological/etc. factors)

Europe is Europe and the Middle East is the Middle East because of geographic location. Even those will eventually change. Both existed prior to any modern day religions.

Oh come on... I'm not talking about geographical locations.

I would imagine Europe will be more secular than anything else 100 years from now. There will be more Arabic people living there than there are now, but that's about it. I somehow doubt that the influx of non-Christian people will result in European technological prowess and social institutions going significantly downhill.

It's a fact, if the immigration doesn't stop, Islam will dominate France and UK. And, it might not immediately cause the economy to go downhill, but it will eventually.

Besides, something tells me that Muslims who are leaving the middle east for Europe are doing so to escape the repressive fundamentalist regimes in place there. If, by some miracle, they should manage to rise to power, I would doubt they will bring that same system with them.

Not really, they're leaving their countries because the living conditions there are horrible (job, education, etc.) and believe it or not, religion is the main cause, but they refuse to change. For example, they were protesting against (I believe it was in Germany) the law that forces students to remove their hijabs in schools. Now, if hijab was so important to you, why did you leave your country? And not just that, they wanted schools to ban students from wearing crosses simply because they couldn't wear their hijabs. Now, to me this sounds like they haven't really left their beliefs, they just want perhaps a better paying job and education.

[loseyourname]

It's a fact, if the immigration doesn't stop, Islam will dominate France and UK. And, it might not immediately cause the economy to go downhill, but it will eventually.

You're misusing the term 'fact.' Facts are things that have already happened. What you are engaging in is speculation. You may or may not be right, but nothing you have predicted has any factual meaning as of the present moment.

Not really, they're leaving their countries because the living conditions there are horrible (job, education, etc.) and believe it or not, religion is the main cause, but they refuse to change.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with oppressive governments, the colonial presence that only left about 50 years ago and still rears its ugly head quite frequently, not to mention military occupation and occasional warfare. Nope, must be the religion. Let's just completely ignore the fact that before the time of the crusades, when Christian Europe decimated the region, Islam had produced better science, better math, better philosophy and literature, and better technology than Europe. Nope, must be an inferior religion.

For example, they were protesting against (I believe it was in Germany) the law that forces students to remove their hijabs in schools.

Good for them. They have a right to express their religious faith. If you wore a crucifix around your neck, would you like your school telling you that you had to take it off?

Now, if hijab was so important to you, why did you leave your country?

Why did you leave your country? Should you not be allowed to wear any orthodox paraphernelia or Armenian logos now that you have?

And not just that, they wanted schools to ban students from wearing crosses simply because they couldn't wear their hijabs.

Good. It's hypocritical to ban one and not the other. Thankfully, we have a freedom of religion in this country and that cannot happen under the constitution. If only Germany was so enlightened.

Now, to me this sounds like they haven't really left their beliefs, they just want perhaps a better paying job and education.

My God, that's terrible. You mean they left their country but didn't give up their religious beliefs? Kind of like every single person in the US?

[CatWoman]

You're misusing the term 'fact.' Facts are things that have already happened. What you are engaging in is speculation. You may or may not be right, but nothing you have predicted has any factual meaning as of the present moment.

Facts aren’t necessarily things that happened in the past. A fact is simply “something believed to be true or real” and I said if things don’t change, that will happen. Here is why:

On average, a non-Muslim woman in Western Europe today, gives birth to about 1.4 children, which 1/3 less than the 2.1 births required to maintain a constant level of population. Which means the population of non-Muslim youngsters will decrease by one third in just one generation. The same rate is 4.2 for Muslim women. You do the math (and of course, there is the high level of immigration).

Why did you leave your country? Should you not be allowed to wear any orthodox paraphernelia or Armenian logos now that you have?

I didn‘t leave MY country… I left a Muslim country (in which all Christian women have to wear the hijab regardless I must add, and no one can complain ). Anyway, no, if I moved to a country with a different religion, I would understand and respect their values and laws. I don’t have to change what I believe in, I just won’t display it publicly. Which means, if I were a Muslim and the schools didn’t allow me to wear hijab I would respect that. And certainly not protest against their own people wearing crosses to school. I can only imagine what more will they demand once they’re the majority!!

Bottom line: I don’t like the idea of a Muslim Europe 100 years from now.

[loseyourname]

Facts aren’t necessarily things that happened in the past. A fact is simply “something believed to be true or real” and I said if things don’t change, that will happen. Here is why:

A fact is a confirmed event. You cannot confirm something that has not yet happened. 'Factual meaning' is a technical term used in philosophy to denote whether or not a claim can be verified or falsified, in principle. Your claim can, but not until 100 years pass. As of the present moment, your claim has no factual meaning and certainly cannot be said to be a fact.

On average, a non-Muslim woman in Western Europe today, gives birth to about 1.4 children, which 1/3 less than the 2.1 births required to maintain a constant level of population. Which means the population of non-Muslim youngsters will decrease by one third in just one generation. The same rate is 4.2 for Muslim women. You do the math (and of course, there is the high level of immigration).

Do you think those rates are static? Have they never changed and will they never change? If so, then you have a good reason to conclude that your claim is likely to become true. That still doesn't make it a fact. In formal testimony, debate, and generally in formal discoursive investigation, there are three categories of evidence: fact, inference, and judgement. What you are making is an inference.

I didn‘t leave MY country…

You don't consider the country you were born in and grew up in to be your country? What is, then?

I left a Muslim country (in which all Christian women have to wear the hijab regardless I must add, and no one can complain ).

So do you think that is a good policy? To force everyone to wear the hijab regardless of their faith? I would certainly say it is not. It is equally bad policy to force someone not to wear a hijab. Complete freedom of religious expression (excluding human sacrifices and such) should be guaranteed everywhere.

Anyway, no, if I moved to a country with a different religion, I would understand and respect their values and laws.

Germany has no religion! It is not a theocracy, there is no state-sanctioned faith. It is a secular country.

• Questions & Answers about Germany
  
  RELIGION
  
  Church and State
  
  Does Germany have a state religion?
  
  There is no state religion. The Basic Law guarantees freedom of faith and freedom of religion or ideological creed. Historical development, however, has resulted in religious concentrations in certain areas. Northern Germany is primarily Protestant, while the population in the West and South is primarily Catholic. These regional groupings, however, are gradually being leveled out through the increasing migration and mobility of families since World War II.

Germany Info

The population is today predominantly protestant (before that they were Catholic and, before that, pagan). Perhaps someday in the future the population will be predominantly muslim. Provided Germany has the same constitution then that it has today, it will still be a secular country.

I don’t have to change what I believe in, I just won’t display it publicly.

Kind of like the don't ask, don't tell policy, eh?

Which means, if I were a Muslim and the schools didn’t allow me to wear hijab I would respect that. And certainly not protest against their own people wearing crosses to school. I can only imagine what more will they demand once they’re the majority!!

I know! I just can't believe that they're demanding freedom and equality of religious expression. How dare they!

Bottom line: I don’t like the idea of a Muslim Europe 100 years from now.

Fine then. History has shown that when you allow a personal dislike of a certain group of people to become official policy, it doesn't work out too well.

[winoman]

CROSSEYED AND PAINLESS

Talking Heads

Lost my shape-Trying to act casual!
Can´t stop-I might end up in the hospital
I´m changing my shape-I feel like an accident
They´re back!-To explain their experience

Isn´t it weird/Looks too obscure to me
Wasting away/And that was their policy

I´m ready to leave-I push the fact in front of me
Facts lost-Facts are never what they seem to be
Nothing there!-No information left of any kind
Lifting my head-Looking for danger signs

There was a line/There was a formula
Sharp as a knife/Facts cut a hole in us
There was a line/There was a forula
Sharp as a knife/Facts cut a hole in us

I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...
I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...
I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...
The feeling returns/Whenever we close out eyes
Lifting my head/looking around inside

The island of doubt-It´s like the taste of medicine
Working by hindsight-Got the message from the oxygen
Making a list-Find the cost of opportunity
Doing it right-Facts are useless in emergencies

The feeling returns/Whenever we close out eyes
Lifting my head/Looking around inside.

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don´t do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don´t stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape

I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...
I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...
I´m still waiting...I´m still waiting...

[bell-the-cat]

http://www.realtruthmag.org/articles/0205-wice.html


THERE!
What difference does it make? It's a fact.

It DOES make a difference. Firstly, if you are posting under your name something that someone else has written, then it is only common courtesy for you to give the author name. It may also be a legal requirement. Secondly, if we know the source of the article then we can comment more accurately on its veracity or otherwise.

As far as that article's vercity goes - it's fit only for the trash can. I note you conveniently just happened to miss out all that article's religious garbage (in particular, the "final war" stuff) in the excerpt you quoted.

[Anonymouse]

Oh my god, how terrible. Change happens. Christianity wasn't always the dominant religion in the regions in which it now is, and whites were not always the majority in many of the regions in which they now are. Accepted ideas and skin color change. Big deal.

Whites have always been a majority in their own native lands. Only now do they stand to be minorities.

Leftist liberal egalitarians who seek for "racial justice" when it comes to native Americans, or Mexicans, or other immigrants and natives of other lands such as Asia or Africa, display a double standard. They fight for the self-determination and preservation of other peoples because they have been victims of white oppression directly or indirectly, but now when it comes to the preservation of whites, they don't apply the same standards.

[loseyourname]

Whites have always been a majority in their own native lands. Only now do they stand to be minorities.

Whites haven't even always existed, much less have they always been a majority in any particular land. Neanderthals were the first majority in Europe. Whites have certainly never been a historical majority in the Americas, only Canada and the US for about 150 years or so.

Leftist liberal egalitarians who seek for "racial justice" when it comes to native Americans, or Mexicans, or other immigrants and natives of other lands such as Asia or Africa, display a double standard. They fight for the self-determination and preservation of other peoples because they have been victims of white oppression directly or indirectly, but now when it comes to the preservation of whites, they don't apply the same standards.

And? I'm not fighting for anybody's right to self-determination and preservation. I'm righting for anybody's right to live wherever they damn please and can afford to live. That and the right to freely express their religion. If your native land sucks, you should have the option to leave for a better place. Armenians of all people should understand and agree with this.

[Anonymouse]

Whites haven't even always existed, much less have they always been a majority in any particular land. Neanderthals were the first majority in Europe. Whites have certainly never been a historical majority in the Americas, only Canada and the US for about 150 years or so.

I was speaking of Europe, this discussion is about Europe.

And? I'm not fighting for anybody's right to self-determination and preservation. I'm righting for anybody's right to live wherever they damn please and can afford to live. That and the right to freely express their religion. If your native land sucks, you should have the option to leave for a better place. Armenians of all people should understand and agree with this.

I'm sorry, this seems a bit illusory because undelying this is the concept of property rights. People can't just live where they please. As the old saying goes, fences make good neighbors.

[bell-the-cat]

Whites haven't even always existed, much less have they always been a majority in any particular land. Neanderthals were the first majority in Europe.

That's like saying that homosapiens were not always the majority, since before them were dinosaurs! Or that we are not in the majority now since birds, mice, fish, xxxxroaches, etc, all outnumber us. Neanderthal man was a completely separate species from us.