Evolution discussion from Time magazine

[Siggie]

My previous message must have been of zero entropy (in shannon's acceptation of the word) for its deletion to be justified. I infer that my statement regarding thoth's mental abilities is taken as a tautology.

It was irrelevant and I asked that we not insult others.
If your post is deleted, don't continue by just posting again about your deleted post. If you have a question pm me or another moderator.
Put the thesaurus away... not sure what you're trying to accomplish with it.

[Anonymouse]

Sorry to all the nobrains who deny evolution (or the Armenian Genocide for that matter)...the evidence for the truth of Evolution is overwhelming - fossile evidence, DNA evidence, observable evidance based on speciation and environment. All your blabber to the contrary has not offered any alternative or reason to doubt the ovewhelming fossile record and the huge scientific basis for belief in Evolution.

Thus as I said before your attack is an attrack against Scientific knowledge itself. And while I fully admit that such knowledge is evolving (just like biology itself) - it is through Scientific understanding and not just supersticious conjecture or consulting crystal balls or such that we can best know about the world, universe and reality around us. Is it the complete, accurate, do all and end all answer to everything? Of course not and no intelligent person would ever claim such - so it is you who are arguing non-points - all around. Evolution is good Science - I have never seen a balck hole nor the birth of a Supernova or the inteworkings of the atom and beyond - yet I trust in the accepted Science to give me the best information - that I as a non-specialist cannot take the time to be fully educated in all areas to fully understand all the theories, evidence and such myself - so I understand some basics enough for things to make some sense - or even if they may not - I at least accept the Science and know that it is the best we have but that every passing day will bring us new discoveries and uncover aspects of true wonders of the universe. Those who - by their willful ignorance - choose to ignore the wonders brought to us by the knowledge imparted by the various biological sciences that adhere to the reality inherent within the Theory of Evolution - are just missing out - and your protests of such really are pathetic in the scheme of things.

Do you realize that you cannot validly compare the Armenian Genocide with that of a theory such as evolution?

Any rational, logical person can see through this faulty analogy. For starters, the Armenian Genocide is a historical event, which means there is evidence, it was observed, and is verifiable. The theory of evolution, is a truth claim about life's origins which have never been observed, cannot be observed, nor can be verified. Thus, your comparison is incorrect and in fact, an insult to Armenians.

[Armenian]

Thus, your comparison is incorrect and in fact, an insult to Armenians.

His being here is an insult to Armenians as well.

I think we should allow such folk to claim that their forefathers were monkeys.

What do you say?

[Sip]

I say you are in no position to allow/disallow anything

[Armenian]

I have studied enough biology, chemistry and physics in my life, not to mention that I have enough common sense, to know that the theory of evolution is just a hoax forced upon unsuspecting "sheeple."

I also know that that Darwin along with his contemporary friends, Freud and Marx, were hallucinatory lunatics and - so are their followers. In my opinion, the aforementioned three have destroyed civilization.

Freud: Made everything in life revolve around a Penis.

Darwin: Made your forefather a monkey.

Marx: Killed God.

Thus, what we have today are Godless, phallic driven animals running around acting superior.

There is absolutely no fossil evidence that even remotely suggests that evolution is a reality. On the contrary, the fossil evidence suggests that species have suddenly appeared and disappeared throughout primordial history. The theory of "evolution" as taught, in other words organism jumping for one species to the next, is against all laws of nature and logic.

Evolution simply cannot occur within this universe without am intelligent source guiding it.

Human kind did not *evolve* from little monkeys; little monkeys did not *evolve* form little fury creatures; little fury creatures did not *evolve* for little slimy amphibians; little slimy amphibians did not *evolve* from little fish; little fish did not *evolve* from little plankton; little plankton did not *evolve* from little ameba; little *amoeba* did not *evolve* from inorganic elements in a primordial ocean soup.

Some of you *scientists* here are not even smart enough to know the difference between micro versus macro evolution.

Micro-evolution: The only form of evolution that exists, the ability of organisms to adapt and change <<within their species>> according to the environmental stresses found within their habitat.

Macro-evolution:The type of evolution that has never existed and will never exist, the fairytale that suggests species evolved into other species.

Incidentally, for those who worship the "tailbone" as a proof that humans once ran with their tails between their legs: Try sitting down on your butts without a tailbone and see what will happen.

Every cell in our body has a functionary purpose that is placed there by our creator.

Evolution, as thought, simply can not take place within this universe - it is as simple as that. And until science gives mankind a better explanation as to how life developed on earth, I am going to continue believing in a creator God.

[Sip]

I have studied enough biology, chemistry and physics in my life, not to mention that I have enough common sense, to know that the theory of evolution is just a hoax forced upon unsuspecting "sheeple."

blah blah blah

... And until science gives mankind a better explanation as to how life developed on earth, I am going to continue believing in a creator God.

You do that. Believe in your God. Let us stupid sheep alone since obviously God intended us to discuss this thread otherwise it wouldn't exist.

At least it's now obvious you don't have a clue what Anonymouse is talking about.

[winoman]

Stupid Armenian.

[Stark Evade]

"Functionary purpose?"

What the f...

Function!

[Sip]

Evolution simply cannot occur within this universe without am intelligent source guiding it...

And how did you exactly arrive at this amazing conclusion? That's kind of a big statement to make don't you think?

[Lamb Boy]

Armenian-

You know I take the time out to read what you post, as ill informed as it might be, and although I made a promise to myself NOT to respond again to this discussion I feel compelled to so as to stop the flow of MISINFORMATION! lol

Did anybody even READ the link to the article I posted? Just for you Armenian here are some excerpts...

“Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.”

- Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981

“Let me try to make crystal clear what is established beyond reasonable doubt, and what needs further study, about evolution. Evolution as a process that has always gone on in the history of the earth can be doubted only by those who are ignorant of the evidence or are resistant to evidence, owing to emotional blocks or to plain bigotry. By contrast, the mechanisms that bring evolution about certainly need study and clarification. There are no alternatives to evolution as history that can withstand critical examination. Yet we are constantly learning new and important facts about evolutionary mechanisms.”

- Theodosius Dobzhansky "Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution", American Biology Teacher vol. 35 (March 1973) reprinted in Evolution versus Creationism, J. Peter Zetterberg ed., ORYX Press, Phoenix AZ 1983

“A few words need to be said about the "theory of evolution," which most people take to mean the proposition that organisms have evolved from common ancestors. In everyday speech, "theory" often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, "theory" means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. In contrast, the statement that organisms have descended with modifications from common ancestors--the historical reality of evolution--is not a theory. It is a fact, as fully as the fact of the earth's revolution about the sun. Like the heliocentric solar system, evolution began as a hypothesis, and achieved "facthood" as the evidence in its favor became so strong that no knowledgeable and unbiased person could deny its reality. No biologist today would think of submitting a paper entitled "New evidence for evolution;" it simply has not been an issue for a century.”

- Douglas J. Futuyma, Evolutionary Biology, 2nd ed., 1986, Sinauer Associates, p. 15

“Since Darwin's time, massive additional evidence has accumulated supporting the fact of evolution--that all living organisms present on earth today have arisen from earlier forms in the course of earth's long history. Indeed, all of modern biology is an affirmation of this relatedness of the many species of living things and of their gradual divergence from one another over the course of time. Since the publication of The Origin of Species, the important question, scientifically speaking, about evolution has not been whether it has taken place. That is no longer an issue among the vast majority of modern biologists. Today, the central and still fascinating questions for biologists concern the mechanisms by which evolution occurs.”

- Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology 5th ed. 1989, Worth Publishers, p. 972

Finally…

"There are readers of these newsgroups who reject evolution for religious reasons. In general these readers oppose both the fact of evolution and theories of mechanisms, although some anti-evolutionists have come to realize that there is a difference between the two concepts. That is why we see some leading anti-evolutionists admitting to the fact of "microevolution"--they know that evolution can be demonstrated. These readers will not be convinced of the "facthood" of (macro)evolution by any logical argument and it is a waste of time to make the attempt. The best that we can hope for is that they understand the argument that they oppose. Even this simple hope is rarely fulfilled.

There are some readers who are not anti-evolutionist but still claim that evolution is ‘only’ a theory which can't be proven. This group needs to distinguish between the fact that evolution occurs and the theory of the mechanism of evolution.

We also need to distinguish between facts that are easy to demonstrate and those that are more circumstantial. Examples of evolution that are readily apparent include the fact that modern populations are evolving and the fact that two closely related species share a common ancestor. The evidence that Homo sapiens and chimpanzees share a recent common ancestor falls into this category. There is so much evidence in support of this aspect of primate evolution that it qualifies as a fact by any common definition of the word ‘fact.’”

-Evolution is a Fact and a Theory: by Laurence Moran

That’s pretty much the article hehehe, or at least the sections that apply to our own discussion. You know there is a wealth of evidence supporting evolution and in all truthfulness even if you’re NOT a creationist there isn’t a single oppositional theory to explain how everything, including ourselves, made it to our present state. Evolution is really the only supported theory/fact , in regards to evidence, that explains how all things made it up to this point. If you’re not offering an alternate idea to evolution that, ALSO like evolution is supported by facts and NOT blind faith (read impossible), then all your really doing is attacking evolution as a fact without any supporting thoughts, ideas, evidence whatever…

Here's the WHOLE ARTICLE!! Evolution is a Fact and a Theory

Anyway I’m out … until I feel compelled to respond again!
Muuhauhhauhaahaaaa!