What do you consider more important.....

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

Everything's interconnected, that's true, but we're all too distracted by one or two aspects of it all at a time, and so when you bring an issue that embraces all other issues, we feel disoriented. It just doesn't feel all that related, but it definately is, because we all stem out from nature.

But Siggie wants to lay down some rules, and there's not much you can do about it.

I certainly don’t blame anyone for not understanding (this is all very weird for everyone), but I do need people to think and think (wow, I didn’t see that before... WOW). I have done that many times… realize I was blind, but now I ‘see.' SEE more than just eyes 'see.'

I believe in a better way (and a more intelligent way of being for all)...

[Anonymouse]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

You might have already guessed that I would reply to this and vehemently disagree. There is absolutely a strong connection between having a high IQ (if that is how we are supposed to objectively measure intelligence) and being born into a certain environment that promotes, supports, and encourages higher education. You are ignoring the thousands of blacks, when given the opportunity, with very high academic achievements. Likewise, there are millions of Asians who never reached above primary education, if they even achieved that, and would score much lower on a Western IQ-test than an African American or Mexican drop-out from a school in the slums of Los Angeles.

Maybe it is true that certain levels of higher intelligence, in the case of Phds, Grand Masters, etc., are biological, but everyone born with a healthy brain should have the ability to at least finish high school and serve the community one way or another. There is nothing biological about your average toilet cleaner and garbageman.

As for other countries, like Africa, never making it to so-called high civilization: this is YOUR interpretation of high civilization. Other people might have a different view on what a high civilization is. I do hope that despite your adamant views on biological warfare and ultimate genocide of what you call "lower mankind," you do have a high enough IQ to be able to see beauty, inspiration, and intelligence around the world. It would make you miss out on quite a bit if you wouldn't, including your own culture, which may not be as highly civilized as Nietzsche's, in your view, but has beauties that no other culture in the world, not even the most civilized, has ever created.

I am sorry to burst your egalitarian and politically correct bubble, but here I will try to educate you on what they don't teach you in the socialistic 'universities', be they in Europe, or America, because for some reason or other, Western civilization has adopted a suicidal path to decadence.

IQ is more than anything tied to biology. Intelligence is something that is not only marginally environmental, it is almost entirely a matter of biology. The same atheists, socialists and secularists who like to tout evolution when it advances their claim, seem to relegate it to the backseat when it proves harmful to their ideological drives. In this case, the whole idea of evolution and breeding and natural selection are ignored, in favor of some vague and hazy notion of 'environment'.

Environment can and may play a role but it is horribly limited, and more than anything it only heightens and accentuates whatever biological propensity was already there to begin with. It can neither add life, soul, intelligence nor intellect to people who are already limited by their very design. While the environment can help these people to become more knowledgeable, that does not correlate to and nor is it the same thing as intelligence and intellect. Intelligence is more than merely knowing facts, it is how one reasons and thinks analytically and critically, it is tested in peoples' response times and their overall cognitive abilities, planning, solving problems, thinking abstractly, comprehending complex ideas, learning quickly and from experience. It is not merely book learning or narrow academic skills. In fact, intelligence is reflected in our civilizations because it is the people that compromise and make these civilizations what they are.

Time and time again IQ tests have established that blacks always underperform whites in IQ tests. And time and time again there have always been excuses as to why blacks underperform. Asians even score higher on IQ tests than whites. That exceptions to the rule exist does not in any way disqualify the rule. Moreover, while you do not agree with the definition of high civilization or high culture, it remains that most of the worlds contributions have been a result of the Caucasian and Asian races, with Africa and blacks having a horrible track record. Such an observation and statement is not racist, contrary to what you may think, but it is the simple and sublime truth. Those of your persuasion can get around the situation by making things elastic and redefining progress and civilization to make yourselves feel better that somehow there is no way to compare anything, but that is only in the confines of your mind.

One thing we can be greatful to Nietzsche and Foucault is their insight on how truth and error change with the underlying epistemes and what is considered truth is dependent on relations of power, rather than on truth itself. Currently conventional wisdom informs us that there is no such thing as race, although there can be racists (one wonders how racists can exist if there are no races). It also informs us that there are no racial differences, nevermind the fact that there are biological differences between individuals and every other animal or plant humans classify, so why should we not expect the same in population groups.

And contrary to what you claim, I never advocated genocide on anyone. I simply stated that government should not support the low class, low quality, unintelligent, uncultivated and criminal elements with the burden being carried by the productive members of society, taxpayers such as my folks or myself. Those who cannot survive cannot live to procreate and perpetuate their genes. By artificially allowing them to survive they become more and more of a strain on the productive members of society. Without socialistic governments to protect these lower elements, the laws of nature would have made these people obsolete. This is neither cruel nor unjust, but only fair and true to nature. No one is entitled to anything except by ones own wits. Pity is nothing more than a chimera.

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

I will honestly respond after I read what you wrote, Anonymouse. (there, song is gone, but you heard.)

xxxel (Joowell), Again and again...

Those who were here, hear, but for everyone else... a mystery.

[Anonymouse]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

I will honestly respond after I read what you wrote, Anonymouse. Before I do, I will say that I guess what you say is ...communist, socialist... blah blah... I HATE anyone unlike me, and.... you will 'see' [brb]

I am warning you now, if you so much as post the smallest nonsense, I will ban you. I am tired of your off-topic rants and your style of posting crap for us to decipher. After a hard days work, we want to be able to read what is in front of us. Either get with the program and stick to a simple dialogue or pack your bags.

[Anonymouse]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

yikes...

Anyhow, about the comment on no variation based on ethnicity (for intelligence)... Well, ethnicity based on skin colour is very stupid because there could be as much genetic variation or even more variation between two "Negros" than between a "Negro" and "Caucasian".

That is untrue and false. The famous and oft-repeated argument by egalitarians and other ideologically motivated 'scientists' to somehow discredit the idea of real racial differences is what you just quoted. That there are more differences, or variation among two people from the same race, than say, between some random African and someone from Asia, is based on faulty data gathering of gene frequencies. Such data can result when scientists choose to measure many particular gene frequencies which are similar in all races, but fail to measure those gene frequencies which do vary widely between the races.

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

I am warning you now, if you so much as post the smallest nonsense, I will ban you. I am tired of your off-topic rants and your style of posting crap for us to decipher. After a hard days work, we want to be able to read what is in front of us. Either get with the program and stick to a simple dialogue or pack your bags.

I very much think you lean towards being a 'nazi.' Before I say more, I'd like you to confirm or not, Anonymouse. There is NOTHING TO decypher there, for sure. (and don't forget how much I honestly do love you, and want to change your head, Anonymouse.) [big heart emote.]

[Anonymouse]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

I very much think you lean towards being a 'nazi.' Before I say more, I'd like you to confirm or not, Anonymouse.

If by acknowledging such thing as race and racial differences makes me a Nazi, then I am. Besides, what do smear words have anything to do with an intellectual discussion? You are such a product of modern soundbytes and propaganda your pitiful little mind cannot see beyond such box like thinking.

Now, if you actually know me, and have read all my posts, I am far from being a Nazi, economically and politically.

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

If by acknowledging such thing as race and racial differences makes me a Nazi, then I am. Besides, what do smear words have anything to do with an intellectual discussion? You are such a product of modern soundbytes and propaganda your pitiful little mind cannot see beyond such box like thinking.

Now, if you actually know me, and have read all my posts, I am far from being a Nazi, economically and politically.

Anon, you (and so many) buy into so much of very CLEAR historical NAZI propaganda... we are repeating history... WAKE UP!

Mr. Paul Simon sings for divinity....

...and if you listen to MMM, you'll get more... http://www.madison.com/mmm/

[tunot]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

Tunot - There is no such correlation to my knowledge, so do you too have a citation for that claim? It would be very difficult if not impossible, to be able to study certain aspects of environment. There are just too many extraneous variables to control for. Twin studies support a very strong biological influence, but it's not possible to control for environment in the way that using monozygotic twins control genetics.

You don't need a study for that. Open your eyes and use your brain.

I taught lower class kids in bad schools for quite some time. These kids are not stupid. Most of them anyway. They are just not motivated. When all your life you hear that you're stupid, that you have no chance, that no one believes in you, you will score much lower than a kid who hears the exact opposite. I'm not smart. I'm certainly not a genius. I was not born with an extraordinary brain. Yet, I'm a university graduate. How do you explain that?

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, as the saying goes. My parents forced me to get a higher education, they sent me to the best schools for it, and I got it. Lower class kids from bad environments don't have this choice. The reason why they come across more stupid that middle-class kids is because they don't have the money, and often not the will, to motivate their kids into getting educated. They are going to become truck-drivers like daddy anyway, or florists, or famers. It's not a brain issue, but an environmental one. Very clearly so, because when given the opportunity (by me), they had the ability to learn very well, some even better and faster than me. Most of the kids in those schools belong in better school. Much better ones, but they are not given the opportunity and motivation, and even if they did, their parents don't have the money. The cycle continues.

Finally, there is absolutely a correlation, because the few cases that we have unfortunately witnessed of children who had been isolated and did not have any contact with the outside world, did not exactly turn out to be intelligent in the IQ-test way. They never learned to speak, read or write properly, and usually had severe psychological problems to boot. If intelligence was merely biological, we would be able to pass an IQ test without any social contact, without any education, and without any parental contact. We can't even survive for the first eighteen years of our life without external help, and for some people even longer. How are we going to become super-intelligent without at least some external guidance?

[tunot]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

Also, IQ-tests are very often a matter of practice. The more you do them, the higher you score each time, because you get the point. It's a very unreliable way to test intelligence, also because there is strong correlation between education and scoring high. If you continue to educate yourself, you should score much higher ten years from now, than you scored today. The other way around is also true. If you stop educating yourself, you will score much lower in ten years' time than you will now. No one can pass an IQ test without the right training and education (Western standard – don't forget), no matter how smart they were potentially born.