I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

We do not have a complete understanding of the intricacies of the body yet. This work is ongoing... We have only relatively recently mapped the human genome even. Not being able to point to how the biology influences orientation (and truthfully, they may have an idea...I haven't looked) does not preclude knowing that it is influenced by biology. I cited you a couple twin studies previously. That's how we find out... We look at monozygotic (identical) twins, dizygotic (paternal) twins, siblings, etc. and compare the incidence of them sharing the same sexual orientation and they calculate the influence of heredity that way. Another way (though harder to do) is to look at monozygotic twins raised together or raised apart and see the difference there. If their sexuality tends to be the same regardless of whether they were raised together (largely same environmental influences) then it points to biology/heredity.
This is not new... we have put to the nature/nurture question to LOTS of different things (personality/dispositional traits, alcoholism, intelligence, etc.)

Your problem is this: You think about something and decide how you think it should be and then you stop there without looking into whether it actually IS that way. You don't consider the possibility that there's something you don't know or that you could be mistaken. We learn far more if we're not sooooo attached to our beliefs. We should be more flexible in our thoughts and ready to reevaluate in the face of new information.

No, my problem is there have been numerous studies done and there have been no concrete biological factors attributing sexual orientation yet people keep insisting it's biological even though the person is born anatomically male or female.

I will give you that acting on our feelings is another thing, however if you cannot change who you are attracted to, then you're really just setting yourself up for misery and heartbreak (for yourself and potential partners) by "pretending" to be attracted to the opposite sex and attempting to have romantic relationships in the complete absence of any physical attraction.

Sex doesn't necessarily have to involve attraction. I believe it was you that claimed rape is about dominance and not attraction. Since there are psychological aspects to rape (since people like to claim whatever fits their viewpoints) then the same male to male dominance might be determining the psychological thought process of gay men.

As I said, if it were a choice and if it's possible to "override the gay" then it stands to reason that the reverse would be possible as well. That is why I have repeatedly asked you whether you can "override the hetero"...

It seems that in many societies where sex wasn't outspoken and adolescents weren't engaged is sexual acts outside of norm, there was nearly no incidents of abnormal behavior. This can be attributed to "not knowing" or "never learning". Both Chinese and Indian culture (often Eastern cultures) often avoided homosexuality by rule.

There are such correctional facilities (lots run by religious organizations) and they are unsuccessful. This alone indicates that it's not possible then.

There are also many organizations that deal with divorce that are unsuccessful. Once an individual is programmed a certain way, their thought process might virtually be irreversible.

[Davo88]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

I think that the resentment of homosexuality that a lot of people have is mainly due to the Abrahamic religions, and Christianity just has too great of a hold on "the first nation to have officially adopted Christianity".

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

I think that the resentment of homosexuality that a lot of people have is mainly due to the Abrahamic religions, and Christianity just has too great of a hold on "the first nation to have officially adopted Christianity".

You should check out the Chinese Dynasties and their teachings. The Abrahamic religions are just the most recognized ones in the West attributed to ancient texts relating to the Abrahamic religions.

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

No, my problem is there have been numerous studies done and there have been no concrete biological factors attributing sexual orientation yet people keep insisting it's biological even though the person is born anatomically male or female.

I have described the way the research is done and have cited studies for you that pretty concretely point to a significant hereditary/genetic component, but yet you insist there's nothing concrete. You're ignoring everything that doesn't point to the answer you want and that's the mark of someone who has no earnest interest in learning about reality.

Sex doesn't necessarily have to involve attraction. I believe it was you that claimed rape is about dominance and not attraction. Since there are psychological aspects to rape (since people like to claim whatever fits their viewpoints) then the same male to male dominance might be determining the psychological thought process of gay men.

Yes, rape is typically about dominance, but that's because it's RAPE. Consensual sex between two men or two women isn't the same thing... not by a long shot.

It seems that in many societies where sex wasn't outspoken and adolescents weren't engaged is sexual acts outside of norm, there was nearly no incidents of abnormal behavior. This can be attributed to "not knowing" or "never learning". Both Chinese and Indian culture (often Eastern cultures) often avoided homosexuality by rule.

Umm, duh? There's a massive difference about low reports of homosexuality and there actually being low incidence of homosexuality. In intolerant societies, people will underreport.

There are also many organizations that deal with divorce that are unsuccessful. Once an individual is programmed a certain way, their thought process might virtually be irreversible.

So now you've acknowledged that it isn't necessarily a choice (after all, we don't choose to be abused) and now you're adding that it might be impossible for at least some homosexuals to not be homosexual... So you're at least saying it may not be their fault and they might not be able to help it, but you still want to treat them like second-class citizens.

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

I think that the resentment of homosexuality that a lot of people have is mainly due to the Abrahamic religions, and Christianity just has too great of a hold on "the first nation to have officially adopted Christianity".

I agree with you David. I think religion is a large part of it, as is ignorance.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

So now you've acknowledged that it isn't necessarily a choice (after all, we don't choose to be abused) and now you're adding that it might be impossible for at least some homosexuals to not be homosexual... So you're at least saying it may not be their fault and they might not be able to help it, but you still want to treat them like second-class citizens.

LOL, if it was up to me 90% of western society would be 2nd class. I hope the banks finish off the retards once and for all.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

I have described the way the research is done and have cited studies for you that pretty concretely point to a significant hereditary/genetic component, but yet you insist there's nothing concrete. You're ignoring everything that doesn't point to the answer you want and that's the mark of someone who has no earnest interest in learning about reality.

If it's hereditary that throws the whole evolution/natural selection/survival of the fittest theory out the window.

Read up

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007...istory.society
http://www.truthtree.com/pederasty.shtml

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

If it's hereditary that throws the whole evolution/natural selection/survival of the fittest theory out the window.

Read up

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007...istory.society
http://www.truthtree.com/pederasty.shtml

Seriously? Did you not think this through?

Something having a hereditary/genetic component points to biology, but not everyone that passes along that genetic information is homosexual.
Also, if we force people to be something they're not (with attitudes such as those you're exhibiting), then more homosexuals feel pressure to try to be heterosexual, attempt heterosexual relationships, and reproduce.

[Sip]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Wouldn't you say there has been an increase as of late that may point the finger to single parenthood?

I can't say that since I don't have any stats. But seems to me homosexuality has been with us since long long long ago (it was much more common and accepted in ancient greece and rome from what I understand). The Samurai in japan for example also had sex with their male students from what I have read. So unless you have some data to suggest homosexuality is on the rise, I don't think I can agree that that's the case.

Of course in places like Iran where the homosexuals are literally hung, stoned, and killed, of course there is a huge illusion that it is less than in other places. But of course it's only idiots that believe there are no gays in Iran

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Seriously? Did you not think this through?

Something having a hereditary/genetic component points to biology, but not everyone that passes along that genetic information is homosexual.

Yes but every time that genetic code is triggered, it stops from being passed down. It's not a virus, it doesn't spread. It's really like a null code with an end statement.

Let's suppose it is hereditary/genetic and let's say scientists found a way to test prior to pregnancy. What do you think the rates of abortion would be? Is homosexuality a desirable trait that people would honestly claim they want? After all, the point of reproduction is survival.

By the way, I have no hostility towards gay people but what I disagree with is the notion that it's 100% genetic.