To impress a woman, a man.

[loseyourname]

I'm pretty sure he was just pulling that out of his ass.

[anileve]

Spiral, anyone?

I don't know what gave you that impression. What grounds do you have for that claim?

[Anonymouse]

I don't follow. First you say that it's your opinion only and now you make generalizations. When you say that "all women" have that feeling, you are somehow separating them from men and indirectly implying that men don't desire the same feeling. So let me get this straight, men don't have the desire to be nurtured and feel the warmth of a woman. Or to feel the power of her "femininity" by being able to confide in her and reveal his inner fears in hopes that she will tenderly comfort him and offer a solution? Or perhaps really listen to him more then his buddies without forming any judgments? Why do you view things in such a two dimensional way?

I don't know what you mean here. Maybe you can rephrase? Why should the man submit? Why not the woman confide in her man, release her inner fears and submit? I am arguing for patriarchy, you are arguing for matriarchy, and there is only one, just like despotism or anarchy, finite and infinite, even and odd, unity and multitude, right and left, male and female, rest and motion, straight and curved, light and darkness, good and evil, etc. Men desire the same things woman desire, but only specific to their gender. Women are the nurturers, the creators, the sustainers, what we associate with "motherly warmth", men are the providers, the leaders, the aggressors, the builders. Why do you assume that since my thinking doesn't coincide with your thinking it is therefore "two dimensional"?

Ok, let me introduce a scenario to you. A virgin young and gentle "Jeyran" (what an idiotic comparison it is by the way) decides to devote herself to a powerful and dominant man by marrying him. She sacrifices her career and her "independence" (her friends, her personal interests, her personal life, and her financial freedom), in order to raise her family, considering the fact that she is a woman and must fulfill her purpose of a naturally assigned female role. Meanwhile her husband handles the necessities of life, including a very crucial survival factor - financial support. Children are born and everything is nice and dandy for 10 years, all of a sudden her husband calls her from Paris and says that he found someone else and he is not coming back.

She has no job, 2 kids who are not old enough. She has no financial support, has been out of the workforce 10 years already. She has no friends, no outside life, no "Masculine power" to guide her. In other words "She is screwed".

The same situation can happen in your matriarchal type society in which the woman is independent, dominant and in control. It changes nothing. Reverse the roles and you have the same thing. Sadly, life is unfair. Where do you see me saying that if a woman is traditional that she is a slave or has no friends? That is a mischaracterization of what I said. Furthermore, I don't see a need in being "independent" or having your own "financial freedom", either for man or woman. That is the whole point of the marriage and family, the union of the two. If one wants to have their "space" and "independence" and "financial freedom", they might as well continue living by themselves, or roommates and pursue their hedonistic ends. What leads me to believe a woman is afraid to invest, devote, sacrifice and submit herself to her husband and family is the fear of having that effort tarnished, and it is based on personal experiences in the life history of that person which have molded that fear. But if that's what floats your boat, by all means.

Now tell me this, if she was your daughter would you really advise her to give up herself and her independence to invest into an uncertain future? To completely give up her individuality to another human being who might betray her in the future? Because remember the only guaranteed thing in life is death, everything else changes continuously.

To sacrifice yourself entirely for someone else means to disable yourself, no one should ever be subjected to that!

Investing in an uncertain future is all life is, whether it be school or investing in the marketplace, or loving someone. All is uncertain because we never know, one day how things might turn. If you are suggesting that because of that uncertainty we should stop and cease, we might as well kill ourselves. But if any person has a fear it is natural based on experiences. If my hypothetically speaking daughter is being raised, I would raise her the traditional way, not the "independent" or "dominant" way, which translates to me as the masculine way. I would raise her the feminine way, the passive way obeying females and the passive principle, but that is just me. I myself have been taught to sacrifice and devote, so I can't say I will teach my own kid to be in pursuit only of their self-gratification and hedonism. In any society, family, culture, nation, or race, there is a balance between individualism and collectivism, and only when there is too much of a shift in one toward the other do you have problems. Hence too much individualization has caused this fluctuation in the family and the divorce rate, in a "throw away" society.

Hence, why mothers are associated with nurturing, creating, sustaining, and providing that "motherly warmth". To me and this is my personal opinion based on whatever marginal experience I've had on earth, the essence of masculinity is power. Thats what women look for in a man and respond to and similarly men look for vulnerability in women, dependence, submission, to protect or shape them. This is why for me any man that is ruled by his wife to me is no man. He is akin to being a little boy with his mommy. When the woman accepts the mans leadership it makes him feel more like a man, as opposed to constantly competing with him or trying to control him. So a woman does shape a man. She entrusts herself and submits to him and in turn he makes her happy, loves, and consults her. How else? I'm sorry if my views are "two dimensional" and/or backward but that is the way it goes, I cannot change it. To change that, would mean to change my dynamic and have a woman control and shape me. I cannot do that. Cheers.

[spiral]

Spiral, anyone?

interesting....

[loseyourname]

The same situation can happen in your matriarchal type society in which the woman is independent, dominant and in control. It changes nothing.

It doesn't happen when both parties are equally capable of taking care of themselves without having to be dominating or submissive toward anyone. This is what is meant by "equal." We aren't chimpanzees here. We don't need a pecking order.

[Anonymouse]

It doesn't happen when both parties are equally capable of taking care of themselves without having to be dominating or submissive toward anyone. This is what is meant by "equal." We aren't chimpanzees here. We don't need a pecking order.

There is no such thing as "equal", let go of your myopic androgynous outlook. You clearly cannot relate to my opinion, it was never geared at you, stop dwelling on it, you act worse than the girls.

[loseyourname]

A little touchy?

[dstyle]

Too impress a woman a man should take her to pinks.

[Anonymouse]

To impress a woman, a man must display a working knowledge of spending money.

[violette829]

To impress a woman, a man must understand the pure and true beauty of a woman.