To impress a woman, a man.

[SagGal]

...women should all round up in a tent and complete their purpose which magically came in a booklet of instructions 'What's a woman supposed to be like'..."

Well, maybe that's just how he sees it and how he was raised.
However I do think that you can't and shouldn't tell women what to do or what not to do. OK, there are women who just give in to their men and they are fine with that. I'd just tell him good luck with finding that woman. That's just his way of seeing. Leave it at that.

[Anonymouse]

Apparently your confidence which gives you masculinity, is staged by the female's submissiveness. Why? Otherwise you lack it?

A challenge is always much more interesting then a fixed game in your favor. It makes you a lousy player, because it doesn't teach you anything, it doesn't push you to excell, it offers nothing new, and it's BORING!

Once again you attempt to somehow speak for my mind, like anileve, it appears you are psychic. You don't have to like my definition, but since everyone is against making "generalizations" you shouldn't either, for now you are attempting to claim that since someone likes submissive women that they are ipso facto lacking confidence and it would be boring. Judging by your vindicative answer I am to guess you didn't like my opinion, nor did I expect people to tumble all over it, since in this day and age of "progression" and career and independent minded females, my answer is going back in time, so to speak. My confidence is mine, and my preferences are mine, and those that don't like it, are akin to fat women who complain of why men like the skinnier women since they themselves lack something.

For me a woman must give man the power to love her. If she is "strong, career minded and independent" it will get redunant. I look for that nurturing aspect in a woman, that family-home oriented, maker and sustainer aspect, not the bossy, bold, "independent" career woman who wants to show her assertiveness and masculine side, and alienate herself from her natural role as life giver and nurturer. Of course the man has to keep his end of the bargain and be loyal and loving. We do not find wholeness by trying to incorporate masculine and feminine qualities in ourselves but in our opposites.

[Anonymouse]

Mr. Anonymouse: You have recently been posting what I said you were before. These statements are not specific to your preferences but are opinions about general gender roles relative to society as a whole. You are being presumptuous by assuming that the system in "your world" would be better for our current society. There is no way for anyone to know that. Chances are that, if roles change, it is a necessary cultural adaptation. You said yourself that it was not conscious decision-making.

First of all, it is both my opinion about "gender roles" ( such a stupid phrase shouldn't even exist ), and my preferences. Men and women have fixed genders, otherwise they would not be men and women, and with it, fixed characters and capacities, with exceptions to the rule, here and there. When women try to go into the marketplace, get that porsche, and make the lump sum, daily grind living of a man in the business world, they themselves are becoming more masculine, more dominant, more bossy, and more "independent", distancing themselves from their role has nurterers, which is natural to women. I simply state that these imbalances are what is causing the divorce rate, since nothing else would explain it, as that was my opinion, you can surely find another reason. I also said, again my personal preference, that I would never be with a woman as described above, ( maybe have sex ), but never be with them. That is all.

[Inna]

awww...poor Anon..everyone is attacking him for his own views and opinions.
I dont think there is anything wrong with being traditional.
I might be attacked by other female forumers but oh well...I kinda agree with Anon..to a certain point....Of course men and women are different and that each of them offer different things in a relationship as well as in a family..just like Anon said women are the "giver and nurturer" while men are usually the providers...but a woman can also have a decent job that doesnt take up to much time and be able to care for her family.
I was (and still am) raised by a very, very, very old fashioned, traditional father...and things are just fine and dandy in our household...but of course this doesnt work for everyone..it's just based on how you were raised and how you feel about the relationship between a man and a woman.

[SagGal]

I dont think there is anything wrong with being traditional.
I might be attacked by other female forumers but oh well...I kinda agree with Anon..to a certain point....Of course men and women are different and that each of them offer different things in a relationship as well as in a family..just like Anon said women are the "giver and nurturer" while men are usually the providers...but a woman can also have a decent job that doesnt take up to much time and be able to care for her family.
I was (and still am) raised by a very, very, very old fashioned, traditional father...and things are just fine and dandy in our household...but of course this doesnt work for everyone..it's just based on how you were raised and how you feel about the relationship between a man and a woman.

Exactly.

...

[sleuth]

Once again, you fail to understand what I am talking about. Or maybe you did understand and you disagree, in which I ask you to bake me a pie, iron my clothes, and then go into my bedroom and wait for me with your legs open.

ITS YOU failed to understand what i am talking about...you are extarvagant point of vulgarity... thats exactly what i hate ...being vulgar....as i said above...they should be soul mates...and why not...i dont mind to wait for my loved one with my legs open in OUR hous and in OUR bedroom...but before opening my legs , i will put my head in his chest and tell him how much i love him...
while u will have cheapest , vulgar sex in motel room...

Open your minds and eyes guys...and look what real women expect from men...

..i love power of men...it makes me melt..and feel more feminine....(when men gives up his power.,then women have to give up her femininity...her u go ...where is the balance???)

dusken keep your vulgarity under your pillow...ok????

[Anonymouse]

ITS YOU failed to understand what i am talking about...you are extarvagant point of vulgarity... thats exactly what i hate ...being vulgar....as i said above...they should be soul mates...and why not...i dont mind to wait for my loved one with my legs open in OUR hous and in OUR bedroom...but before opening my legs , i will put my head in his chest and tell him how much i love him...
while u will have cheapest , vulgar sex in motel room...

Open your minds and eyes guys...and look what real women expect from men...

..i love power of men...it makes me melt..and feel more feminine....(when men gives up his power.,then women have to give up her femininity...her u go ...where is the balance???)

dusken keep your vulgarity under your pillow...ok????

Ahhh that is refreshing to hear that you and a few others can relate to what I was saying.

[DvlzAdvocate]

You guys go on too much, why is it so interesting how Anonymouse prefers his future "wife" to be like? It is his preference why would anyone try to make him want otherwise? If you don't agree, fine but except and respect.

Men lie, and so do women. We are so alike it is disgusting yet all this time we have considered ourselves different. Men and Women are two peas in a pod, without eachother they would be nothing.

[spiral]

Once again you attempt to somehow speak for my mind, like anileve, it appears you are psychic. You don't have to like my definition, but since everyone is against making "generalizations" you shouldn't either, for now you are attempting to claim that since someone likes submissive women that they are ipso facto lacking confidence and it would be boring. Judging by your vindicative answer I am to guess you didn't like my opinion, nor did I expect people to tumble all over it, since in this day and age of "progression" and career and independent minded females, my answer is going back in time, so to speak. My confidence is mine, and my preferences are mine, and those that don't like it, are akin to fat women who complain of why men like the skinnier women since they themselves lack something.

For me a woman must give man the power to love her. If she is "strong, career minded and independent" it will get redunant. I look for that nurturing aspect in a woman, that family-home oriented, maker and sustainer aspect, not the bossy, bold, "independent" career woman who wants to show her assertiveness and masculine side, and alienate herself from her natural role as life giver and nurturer. Of course the man has to keep his end of the bargain and be loyal and loving. We do not find wholeness by trying to incorporate masculine and feminine qualities in ourselves but in our opposites.

I am not speaking for your mind now, nor have I done so before, but if you feel otherwise, please tell me when this has happened.

My reply was simply my opinion just as yours is yours. I am not saying you should or should not feel this way. I’m merely expressing how I feel about the issue.

You seem to have taken it somewhat to offense. I did not claim that someone who likes submissiveness, is “ipso facto” lacking confidence. You stated that ”A man in control is a man sure of himself and knows himself. He is assertive and dominant. I can never marry or have a wife that is domineering or strives for control.”

This implies that the man gains confidence because he has power over the female, and when the female is not submissive, this threatens the man’s ability to feel as confident.
-----------------------

Your view point on this matter does not seem strange nor unfamiliar to any of us who were raised in a traditional Armenian home. I have had so many arguments about this issue. I completely understand what you are saying, (though you have not expressed it very well)

This mentality is very common in Armenian males.


What I don’t like about this, is that you act like females have a certain role they should be carrying out.

There’s different types of people, something that may make one person happy, may be unfathomable to another.

here's a in-jest example:

(In Armenia) When I was small I loved the color blue, But every time someone would ask me “what’s your favorite color?” I’d say blue, and they’d say “it can’t be blueeeee, blue is a BOY color!!!” And then I would worry, and tell myself, damnit! what color should I begin to like that’s a “girl” color? They’re all so ugly! I hated red, there was pink and orange, but they’re not as nice a blueeeeeee.

And then when we came here, I noticed a lot of other girls liked blue too and it was OK!!!!



Because -there, there's a line drawn in between males and females. They are put into two separate categories.

We all have a little bit of this mentality in us, there's just degrees to it.

[Anonymouse]

I am not speaking for your mind now, nor have I done so before, but if you feel otherwise, please tell me when this has happened.

My reply was simply my opinion just as yours is yours. I am not saying you should or should not feel this way. I’m merely expressing how I feel about the issue.

You seem to have taken it somewhat to offense. I did not claim that someone who likes submissiveness, is “ipso facto” lacking confidence. You stated that ”A man in control is a man sure of himself and knows himself. He is assertive and dominant. I can never marry or have a wife that is domineering or strives for control.”

This implies that the man gains confidence because he has power over the female, and when the female is not submissive, this threatens the man’s ability to feel as confident.

What it also implies is a man certain of himself and his role in society, not a confused twit of an androgynous man. Man is about power and dominance, yet at the same time understanding. When a woman tries to play that role, then you have an inverted and unhealthy relationship, which most likely ends in a break-up or a divorce. The modern day "independent" career woman is all about control, whether she will totally dominate, or whether she will "share" "50-50" as they say. And I, as a male certain of who I am and my position in society, see myself as the controller, and the dominant figure, or provider. I can say the same thing about the domineering career woman and how it is out of lack of confidence that she avoids powerful or stronger men because she fears it, and hence she runs to the dullards and the inept androgynous effeminate males. It makes no point. It answer everything and it answers nothing. You can call it whatever you want, the "Ms. Independence" types want to control a man, to tell him how to please her, to try to be the assertive and dominant ones, the "boss" and hence these relationships fail, friction forms and hence the soaring divorce rate and the social breakdown of the family in this culture. The divorce rate isn't made up, it exists because of something.

Your view point on this matter does not seem strange nor unfamiliar to any of us who were raised in a traditional Armenian home. I have had so many arguments about this issue. I completely understand what you are saying, (though you have not expressed it very well)

This mentality is very common in Armenian males.


What I don’t like about this, is that you act like females have a certain role they should be carrying out.

There’s different types of people, something that may make one person happy, may be unfathomable to another.

here's a in-jest example:

(In Armenia) When I was small I loved the color blue, But every time someone would ask me “what’s your favorite color?” I’d say blue, and they’d say “it can’t be blueeeee, blue is a BOY color!!!” And then I would worry, and tell myself, damnit! what color should I begin to like that’s a “girl” color? They’re all so ugly! I hated red, there was pink and orange, but they’re not as nice a blueeeeeee.

And then we came to here, I noticed a lot of other girls liked blue too and it was OK!!!!


Because -there, there's a line drawn in between males and females. They are put into two separate categories.

We all have a little bit of this mentality in us, there's just degrees to it.

Now you try to somehow equate me with every Armenian male that is about oppression. And I know some of you females will make my definition elastic enough to include it in the scope of Armenian chauvinist males, but I never intended nor implied abuse or oppression of the woman. What good is that for me? That wouldn't make sense and unless you feel yourself to have a little mans complex I don't find a need in such tactless barbarism.

With that said a womans nature is to nurture and love her family, to be inviting warmth and be receptive. You can disagree a thousand times but deep down all women desire this, yes yes I am making a very bold generalization, and what other factor would explain the breakdown of the modern family and the divorce crisis, now that all these women are "independent" and career jockies? Certainly they have their own interests and careers and should develop themselves, but this never occupies the main goal in the womans subconscious. Time and again we see that no woman can juggle being a career woman yet try to raise a successful family. It can't work. It won't work. Nor should it work. They are both jobs, you see. Women who pick the career field end up being swamped and sucked into the vortex of the male world, and they produce the little monsters we see roaming around. Women have an expiration date in which to start their own familia and ironically enough of them have been duped into a career is more important than a family, which is alright if that is what they want, or think they want, only to regret and try to get married in their forties to some young androgynous dork of a male who has no ounce of manliness or power on his shoulders.

Masculinity is defined by power. And hence why women love a holes because of their power. That isn't to say a man who is conscious of himself should be an a hole or are all a holes, but that is the psychology behind it. I see males as the builders, protectors and providers. Femininity is in loving relationships, submitting, nurturing and providing that warmth and receptiveness thereby winning over the husband and in return her also being needed and loved. Women are the icons of sexuality and love. Men are about deeds, women about love, beauty, and faith and all that is good. Men are more rational and women are more emotional and intuitive. A woman surrenders herself to her man by trusting him. This is how a woman expresses her love and gives him the reigns of power. When man betrays this trust he loses her love and thus his power.

Of course women that want to be the opposite of what I describe and have some illusion of holding power, I simply avoid, and in extreme cases I call them butch or lesbians. When the man is charged by power the woman by love, then "ideal" heterosexual union. My whole point is I cannot love or make love to a woman who is competing with me for power, and if some weak androgynous male believes in the concept of "sharing" power ( which never works ), then he's in demand by the modern domineering woman, because there is no such thing as sharing, either the male or the woman will be dominant, there is only one throne for who holds the power, not two. Relationships that are supposedly shared as "equals" are no different than dorming with a room mate at school. With that said, this is my two cents, and I don't intend to cause any friction with this, but only give my opinion, and by this I end my banal presence in this