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Re: Is it wrong to date Turkish Cypriot people?
First of all I know that Armenians were the victims of 1915. There was near 2 million Armenians at anatolia before 1915, and %90 of them were exiled. Even only this fact is enough to cover the sizes of this tragedy. One big nation that leave many monumental and cultural tracks is dissapeared from these lands. All those people left their assets and their homeland.
Second, during this exile about half of this population is died during this exile.
Although your perspective is a systematic and planned genocide there were several reasons of these deaths. Yes, one of these reasons was the attacks of Kurdish bandits from surrouning villages, second reason was some of the soldiers that used to organise the exile. They do not protect these people but some of them even join these massacres. (The point here is that most of these soldiers were not the official soldiers of the Ottoman army. The army and even gendarmes were at war at sevaral frontlines and the government hired the criminals from the prisons. This may be a one reason that the government had a "genocide plan" Third reason was the epidemic diseases and hunger that not only Armenians but all people at anatolia suffered with near 2 million deaths. At the end half of the Armenian population was died and the other half is forced to leave to all over the world, mostly to France, USA, Canada.
Now you ask me was it genocide. The answer is I don't know. Why? Because I and you do not have enough information about what really happened at 1915. During 1915 there was millions of official records of the imperial government whcih we can understand the real facts. You mainly address the UK, French, etc. sources of WW1. But if you are a bit familiar to WW1 history you have to understand that most of the news about the "Armenian genocide" by the allied forces were the international propoganda against Ottoman and German governments. Many of them were not reliable such as "blue book, etc." I even dont want to discuss about the famous telegrams which many scholars (not only Turks) call them fake. It is understandable that allied forces promote such "information" during the wartime. But the reality is at least ambiguous.
Believe or not, I really want to know what really happened. I believe myself as an open person and dont care the propoganda from both sides. There is no doubt that something horrible happened, but I only want to know what exactly happened. But both "your side" and "our side" are promoting the same stereotypes. Turkish government conduct a stupid campain that there was a "Turkish genocide" in reality. Yes, Armenian bandits (your freedom warriors) made some massacres at anatolia towards muslims, but the causialties were not more than 10.000. (At this point you do not want to hear this because it doesnt match with a "typical genocide" You want to draw a picture of a perfect genocide, victim and innocent Armenians versus murderer and fascist Turks)
Regarding the international world, I care about the reputable scholars opinions, but not the "ideas" of the ordinary people, parliements, etc. Because one thing we do not agree on the term of genocide is: there was only one genocide in the world which was at ww2 which Germans conducted against xxxs. All of the Europe just watched the genocide. They either supported the genocide or keep silent. This trauma is still valid at deep inside Europe and europeans want to find an accomplice to their crimes. People tell very stupid things such as "Turks built extermination camps, Turkish doctors made experiments against Armenians", even some claim that Turkish government build train lines from east anatolia to the gas rooms. Besides there was not that kind of racist opinion on Turks against Armenias, these theories are impossible that the government was in a war and even could not give food to its soldiers, because of the lack of railway system soldiers can not reach to the front lines, how can they make this kind of "genocide organisation" like Germans?
I can discuss about many more things with you and Sev Zeytun on these facts but I really just want to know the pure reality, and the only way to find the reality is discuss face to face as Armenians and Turks, Armenia and Turkey, not with your and our racist campains.
Note: the term "you" above is not addressed to your personality, but to "your side"
Note 2: Not only 15 but ASALA killed 46 innocent people (including American aand French citizens which their lives may be considered as "more valuable "than Turks according to many) and 299 people wounded.
Originally posted by Gunner14
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Second, during this exile about half of this population is died during this exile.
Although your perspective is a systematic and planned genocide there were several reasons of these deaths. Yes, one of these reasons was the attacks of Kurdish bandits from surrouning villages, second reason was some of the soldiers that used to organise the exile. They do not protect these people but some of them even join these massacres. (The point here is that most of these soldiers were not the official soldiers of the Ottoman army. The army and even gendarmes were at war at sevaral frontlines and the government hired the criminals from the prisons. This may be a one reason that the government had a "genocide plan" Third reason was the epidemic diseases and hunger that not only Armenians but all people at anatolia suffered with near 2 million deaths. At the end half of the Armenian population was died and the other half is forced to leave to all over the world, mostly to France, USA, Canada.
Now you ask me was it genocide. The answer is I don't know. Why? Because I and you do not have enough information about what really happened at 1915. During 1915 there was millions of official records of the imperial government whcih we can understand the real facts. You mainly address the UK, French, etc. sources of WW1. But if you are a bit familiar to WW1 history you have to understand that most of the news about the "Armenian genocide" by the allied forces were the international propoganda against Ottoman and German governments. Many of them were not reliable such as "blue book, etc." I even dont want to discuss about the famous telegrams which many scholars (not only Turks) call them fake. It is understandable that allied forces promote such "information" during the wartime. But the reality is at least ambiguous.
Believe or not, I really want to know what really happened. I believe myself as an open person and dont care the propoganda from both sides. There is no doubt that something horrible happened, but I only want to know what exactly happened. But both "your side" and "our side" are promoting the same stereotypes. Turkish government conduct a stupid campain that there was a "Turkish genocide" in reality. Yes, Armenian bandits (your freedom warriors) made some massacres at anatolia towards muslims, but the causialties were not more than 10.000. (At this point you do not want to hear this because it doesnt match with a "typical genocide" You want to draw a picture of a perfect genocide, victim and innocent Armenians versus murderer and fascist Turks)
Regarding the international world, I care about the reputable scholars opinions, but not the "ideas" of the ordinary people, parliements, etc. Because one thing we do not agree on the term of genocide is: there was only one genocide in the world which was at ww2 which Germans conducted against xxxs. All of the Europe just watched the genocide. They either supported the genocide or keep silent. This trauma is still valid at deep inside Europe and europeans want to find an accomplice to their crimes. People tell very stupid things such as "Turks built extermination camps, Turkish doctors made experiments against Armenians", even some claim that Turkish government build train lines from east anatolia to the gas rooms. Besides there was not that kind of racist opinion on Turks against Armenias, these theories are impossible that the government was in a war and even could not give food to its soldiers, because of the lack of railway system soldiers can not reach to the front lines, how can they make this kind of "genocide organisation" like Germans?
I can discuss about many more things with you and Sev Zeytun on these facts but I really just want to know the pure reality, and the only way to find the reality is discuss face to face as Armenians and Turks, Armenia and Turkey, not with your and our racist campains.
Note: the term "you" above is not addressed to your personality, but to "your side"
Note 2: Not only 15 but ASALA killed 46 innocent people (including American aand French citizens which their lives may be considered as "more valuable "than Turks according to many) and 299 people wounded.
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