Armenia and Dagestan

[ervand]

This is a question for those of you who know a lot of Armenia's and Urartu's history and cultural evolution.


I was wondering if anyone knows of anything that has to do with Armenia and Dagestan intersect historically?

Dagestan is a country located in South Caucasus in between Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Chechnya.

My interested is their dances, music, and national clothing.

There is a lot of similarities in our dances, music, and (as I was told) national clothing.

They dance Lezginka, but it is not like the Georgian or Chechen Lezginka. They actually have clarinet and zurna that sounds like Armenian. Very first time I heard their Lezginka with clarnet I thought it was an Armenian playing it. It is that similar.

You can hear and see music and dances here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lEQW1HxuWSc

(Pay attention at what is happening at 4th minute of the video. Don't you see some familiar elements?)

This video was a first video that got my interest in their culture and how it connects with ours. It was one Dagestani that told me that when there was no Armenia and Dagestan some of our tribes were located close to each other and they were friends. That's how we got the similarities in our cultures, but that's all he knew.

Discuss.

[skhara]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Really, Dagestan is considered N Caucasus. Although some Armenians may not want to hear it, but certain aspects of national clothing and music/dance has similarity with Azeris. The people of Dagestan were split between Azerbaijan and Russia -- those who became tukified became "Azeris".

There is a Russian anthropologic website that had a section on the Caucasus -- they were showing the peoples from the 1800s and 1900s in their national costumes. Unfortunately that section was removed.

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

So you are saying that people of Dagestan got their similarities with people of Armenia due to Azeries?

Do you think they existed back then when there was Urartu?

Can someone give me a link or explain what their history is like? I mean I know Azerbaijan didn't exist when my great grand father was alive, but they existing as people?

PS: Oops, I confused the North with the South =)

[skhara]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

So you are saying that people of Dagestan got their similarities with people of Armenia due to Azeries?

No no, I don't know where the similarity comes from. I am just saying that the Dagestanis were basically split. Part of Azeris are just turkified caucasians.

[lampron]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

No no, I don't know where the similarity comes from. I am just saying that the Dagestanis were basically split. Part of Azeris are just turkified caucasians.

Dagestan has more than 20 nationalities. In general Dagestan's relations with Armenia have been good

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Dagestan has more than 20 nationalities. In general Dagestan's relations with Armenia have been good

I think it is actually about 15, but who cares =)

[Hellektor]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Dagestan has more than 20 nationalities. In general Dagestan's relations with Armenia have been good

A lot can be understood of Dagestan if the history of Aghvans is considered. The Aghvans (so-called Caucasus Albanians) were in fact a collection of many ethnicities that lived in the regions to the north of the River Kur, (north) west of Caspian and parts of today's Dagestan. In addition, Sarmatians (today's Ossetians), Massagets, etc. also had their states in the region. It is beyond question that migratory tribes have also entered and settled in the region.

In fact, while "Azeris", leftovers of Oghuz invasions and also turkified locals who had become Muslims after the Arab invasion, unjustly claim Aghvan descent, Dagestanis may have stronger links with these extinct peoples. Needless to say the Aghvans were very close to Armenians, so close that the Armenian historian from Aghvank, Movses Kaghankatouatsi considers them the descendants of Hyke.

To picture what Aghvans as a nation would look like you could say the Georgians are the middle point of a scale where Armenians as an accomplished, solid nation are on the top and the Aghvans on the bottom. This is one of the reasons they disappeared.

I copy/paste this extract from my thingy about fake "Azerbaijan":

Strabo has reported the existence of 26 ethnicities with their own kingdoms and languages in Aghvank. The Islamic historians have also mentioned the diversity of the languages of the region. It seems that the Aghvans were the largest group of them all.

...it is noteworthy that scholars have counted Mukhoi (Mughan according to some), Casps, Gels (Gils), Leks, Gargars, Udins (Utis), Silvis, Lupins, Chilbs, Shichbs, Gardman, Olond, Lahij, Egersuans, Balasich, Khechmataks, Tavaspars, Poskhs, Tats, Talishes, Gluars, Gats, Budugs, Khinalugs, Khibivans, Khrsans, Kriz, Pukuans, among others as ethnicities who live or once lived in the region loosely referred to as Aghvank or Caucasus Albania. Interestingly not a single one of these has ever been linked in any way to Turks while a number of them such as Talishes, Tats and Lahijis are certainly of Iranian origin.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

who cares about their puny territory

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Mos
I find it interesting history wise.

Hellektor
Thanks. I will research everything you said when I have time.

[ipodfansmail]

reply3

Wow! This post rocks