Why couldn't Armenians....

[Armenian]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

There were even Armenians at the Mongol Imperial court who served as doctors, translators and even as clergy to the Christian members of the Mongol imperial family.

In a certain historical sense one can equate the Bolshevik/Communist empire to that of the Mongol empire. As a matter of fact, in their rhetoric some Western governments, the Third Reich in particular, also equated the Mongols to the Bolsheviks, not just in a sociological sense but also in a geopolitical sense. Nonetheless, I think the Mongols have not been properly assessed and appreciated by us Armenians. Few Armenians seem to be aware that at times Mongol and Armenian armies fought side-by-side against enemies, both Christian and Muslim. Considering the fact that they were, relatively speaking, close to Armenians and they ravaged Turkic peoples throughout the region Armenians today reflect very negatively on Mongols, even going as far as equating them to Turks. I never understood why this is.

[Armanen]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Maybe because too many mistake the terms mongoloid and mongol. This is similar to turkic and turkish.

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

The Turkish government is very discriminatory towards 'dhimmis', just admit it.

... there's nothing wrong with that; our religion allows us to discriminate. but we can't deprive non-muslims of their rights, except for satanists and atheists. and according one of the four Islamic legal schools, we are allowed to deprive the rights from people of religions that came after Islam, e.g. Mormonism, Sikhism, Rastafarians, Bahaii's, Ahmadiyas, etc.....

[Palavra]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Soyelturk,what are you talking about? Are you a religious guy?

[crusader1492]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Soyelturk,what are you talking about? Are you a religious guy?

Of course he is. Why would you even ask...you don't have to read between the lines to see that.
The kid is a Islamic zealot just like the majority of Turks living outside of Constantinople and Angora.

...SoyelTurco is an example of your average Turk...Islamic, nationalist and backwards.

Ask him what he thinks about headscarfs in universities.

[Armenian]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Of course he is. Why would you even ask...you don't have to read between the lines to see that. The kid is a Islamic zealot just like the majority of Turks living outside of Constantinople and Angora...SoyelTurco is an example of your average Turk...Islamic, nationalist and backwards. Ask him what he thinks about headscarfs in universities.

Yes, but I would prefer dealing with him over this Palavra character any day. Generally speaking, Armenians have had, and continue to have, problems with the so-called "secular" Turks, not the religious ones. The pan-Turkists in Turkey (or the Grey Wolves) tend to be the secular-nationalist ones. I think you are confusing secular Turks with liberal/socialist Turks.

[ARGENTINA]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Why couldn't Armenians create a sustaining, lasting and large empire to this day?

Anatolia has been swapped between the Romans, Macedonians (Alexander the Great), Persians, Byzantines, Some Arabs, and finally the Turks. Since Armenians did inhabit most of eastern Anatolia for centuries, why weren't they effective enough to create their own empire that survived through into a nation state?

The only time Armenians managed to maintain empires were the interim periods between the other empires; Armenia only came around when the land was being switched hands amongst other empires.

It's just one of those things. You know, have been there first and around for a while but never got around to anything. Kind of like the native Americans in America - they had so many opportunities to stop the Europeans - but it just didn't happen.

Was it just bad luck?

it is the way we play the game, it could be nasty ,well as far that I know historically we play generally to the wrong horse, but we are proud nation not admit to be the looser that is other way of reliving back pain,we need lots of aspirin finally,since 1990 we haven participated any racing game , the politic builders win and we as well, the others loose we get contented , so far so good ,finally we have silk road control problem with ziyonmakers, we got to play to the right horse this time.

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Soyelturk,what are you talking about? Are you a religious guy?

I don't like the word "religious." But I understand what you mean - yes I try to pray five times and learn about Islam. what exactly do you have concern about in the statement I made?

Maybe discrimination is too strong of a word. We differentiate to say the least. Here in the west discrimination has very strong negative connotations because it was done so viciously in the past against blacks in the u.s. and turks and arabs in europe. In bonafide muslims empires, the non-muslims were simply required to pay higher taxes and be loyal to state. There were other things that had to be forfeited (I think the right to bare arms). ... so is this discrimination in the way we define it today? It's arguable.

Of course he is. Why would you even ask...you don't have to read between the lines to see that.
The kid is a Islamic zealot just like the majority of Turks living outside of Constantinople and Angora.

...SoyelTurco is an example of your average Turk...Islamic, nationalist and backwards.

Ask him what he thinks about headscarfs in universities.

there no compromise on headscarf. its not an individual decision. just like taxes arent negotiable. the head scarf, prayers and other markers of identity or acts of worship are God's tax. we have to pay his tax socially, spiritually, economically, politically, etc.....

interesting you said backwards. it'd be better if you elaborate. do you equate being "religious" with being backwards?

"Islamic zealot" is a redundancy. Just say "Islamic."

And I'm nationalist to the point where it doesn't contradict my Islam. i.e. I wont fight against other muslims. (of course there are exceptions, maybe pkk (communists) or the shia.

heres a little background about me. i was a little agnostic in my attitudes in high school - very scientific and philosophy/reason/rationality oriented. in college i got more religious and much more turkish. I grew up in brooklyn, ny in a turkish community and family. thats pretty much it. now you know a little bit, your comments, i hope, will be better calibrated.

[seruven]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Ask him what he thinks about headscarfs in universities.

As a democratic socialist, I believe that headscarfs should be allowed in universities, too. So it's not ony religious guys.
I disagree with most of your statements regarding to Turkey, but I am too sleepy to write more. Maybe later, crusader. (find a smart answer which will rhyme.)

[Palavra]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

The kid is a Islamic zealot just like the majority of Turks living outside of Constantinople and Angora.

Istanbul is equal to Turkey. She is just summary of Turkey. Anyway, There are not islamic zealots in Turkey more than christian one in armenia or USA..

...SoyelTurco is an example of your average Turk...Islamic, nationalist and backwards.

You cannot become both religious and nationalist.

Ask him what he thinks about headscarfs in universities.

Who said I am against it?

Yes, but I would prefer dealing with him over this Palavra character any day. Generally speaking, Armenians have had, and continue to have, problems with the so-called "secular" Turks, not the religious ones. The pan-Turkists in Turkey (or the Grey Wolves) tend to be the secular-nationalist ones. I think you are confusing secular Turks with liberal/socialist Turks.

Hmm why? I am neither nationalist nor secular.. what is your problem with me? Oh most probably I am not even Turk. You should love me much

I don't like the word "religious." But I understand what you mean - yes I try to pray five times and learn about Islam. what exactly do you have concern about in the statement I made?

So how can discrimination goes with Allah becoming just? Just curiosity..

Maybe discrimination is too strong of a word. We differentiate to say the least.

Absolutely. It is better to choose word more carefully.

ere in the west discrimination has very strong negative connotations because it was done so viciously in the past against blacks in the u.s. and turks and arabs in europe. In bonafide muslims empires, the non-muslims were simply required to pay higher taxes and be loyal to state.

Tax issues is totally different. There were christian subject who did not pay tax but become soldier. Anyway, Muslim countries also made a lot discrimination or where do you think 60.000 greek at istanbul gone?

nd I'm nationalist to the point where it doesn't contradict my Islam. i.e. I wont fight against other muslims.

That is totally absurd. I am zero nationalist and I will fight any country muslim or not who attack my country. You know, we should use same standart for all people includes nonmuslims or muslims. If Muslim rulers are harsh, You should fight against them. Personally I prefer to fight against saddam than UK.

I should also say, there is not any nationalism which is not contradict with islam. Islam banned it. That is all..