Why couldn't Armenians....

[Sip]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Your "line-based division"s will be around as long as humanity will be around.

Have you been to Europe recently?

[yerazhishda]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Have you been to Europe recently?

Forget about Western Europe, it's a cesspool. Have you been to Eastern Europe lately?

[Palavra]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

But before we go on, realize that Turks only managed to create their empire due to the political weaknesses of Byzantine, Armenian, Persian and Middle Eastern powers... Turkish power rose during a time when the natives of Asia Minor, Mesopotamia and the Caucasus were exhausted from constant warfare that had lasted centuries, most of which was occurring within the Armenian Highlands... The natives of the region had more-or-less fought themselves to the point of utter exhaustion. Moreover, the relentless stream of barbarian Huns, Tatars, Seljuks, Turkmens, Mongols, Ottomans, etc., was simply too much for the region's highly cultured and civilized nations to check effectively.

It is not only armenians or greeks fought with each other. Infact Turks fought with each other too. And we constantly fought against a lot nations, persians, greeks chines and mongolians.

Specially at ottomans time, It is totally absurd to claim , Turks are powerful because They did not fight against others or They are united. All of anatolia was in war.. There were a lot turkish city states and they fought with each others.(Also lets does not forget, Turks fough against crusaders and mongols too.)

It is a cheap excuse..

It's no secret that barbarians fight better than highly cultured peoples. This has been one of the fundamental ailments of world history.

Nope. All big empires are built by nonbarbarians.. Roman empire, byzantium, egypty or persian empire. Which one was barbarian built? Show me some empires built by barbarians and survived 600 year..

To their credit, Turkic peoples, being uncivilized and uncultured at the time, were united enough, barbaric enough and hungry enough to persevere against their vastly more civilized but hopelessly disunited enemies. So, history has given you Turks the credit for being united and relentless - yet uncultured and barbaric...

haha you have realy no idea about Turkic people history do you? If we were united as you say, History would be totally different(Even biggest lost of Ottoman happened because of a turkic traitor.) Infact, Turks fight with each other at last 1000 year. Most probably much more than armenians..

You Turks will eventually loose some of your eastern provinces to the majority Kurds there. Wouldn't you rather just give the territory in question to us Armenians instead? When a Kurdish nation rises wouldn't you Turks want a powerful Armenia as a counterbalance in the region? What kind of neighbors would you like to have to your east, Kurds or Armenians?

Kurds(Like our ancestors decision. They helped kurds against armenians). They may fight against us but They will not show hate as much as you. Also, If you ask me both nations(armenians or kurds)are not realy a big danger for Turkey.


And I am not sure, Kurds will built their state.(Not because, They have not number or power but I think They prefer to stay with Turkey.)

Even kurds at north iraq seek for Turkey alliance and protection and without sea coast, They never will become a powerful state. In reality, They would need turkish support against iran or arabs..

[Palavra]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Ummmm note to Soy el Turco...... Armenians built pretty much everything Ottomans have to be proud of.....You can look up the Balyan family, Hamparsum Limonciyan, even your beloved Sinan was of christian origin which makes him either Greek or Armenian.

Ottomans was a multicultural empire but It is funny to claim, armeians built all ottoman empire. Anyway, werent mother of Abdulhamit 2 also armenian? Most probably ottoman family have more armenian blood than turkish one. So You are also proud of Abdulhamit 2?

If turkey made one single f'ing step towards Armenia, Russia or Iran... You will get as$rammed by Kurds so hard, not to mention countered by any of the above three..... Leave Azeris to us, We'll leave you to the Kurds. Iran and Russia will just wait their opportunity to own you. Russians will cut your gas supplies so fast your xxxx will fall off before you even knew what happened, just like Iran did to you once in the middle of Winter! Even central Asian Turks are with Armenia! Oh and if Israel even attempted to aid Turkey, Arabs would seize that opportunity like a fat kid in a candy store.

Its a lonely world for a Turk isn't it?

Haha Infact, It is not. If you look closely, most of Turkey neighbors prefer to coexist with Turkey. Russia, Iran. It is sad, we cannot give them our alliance because of our alliance with USA. It is Turkey who is choosing her friends. We are not armenia who had no chance to choose her friends but should go russia and Iran..

Anyway, about azeris. They did not let armenians to occupy nahcivan, Why do you think She should change his decision?

[Sip]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Forget about Western Europe, it's a cesspool. Have you been to Eastern Europe lately?

Not sure I understand what you mean here bud.

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Territorial expansion and forming geographically confined empires is sooooo last millenia. The US is solid proof that this "geo-ethnic" fronting is as outdated as thinking God has anything to do with anything

In the end, the Turks, Armenians, and Kurds are going to figure out how they fit in a 21st century model as opposed to trying to exercise the old line-based division that somehow everything on this side of the line is mine and everything on the other side is yours.

Might be a good point, in an era of chip technology and other forms of such vast perversion by digital technology into our lives, how human are we really? How far are we from becoming cyborgs?

If you want to hold onto the last millennial human state so that fighting for territory actually means anything anymore, you'd better start fighting the war that's been waged on you and your mind that alienates your consciousness from land itself.

I'm addressing this on a purely political basis.
A part of Islamic belief is that the Socio-Political and Economic set forth Muhammad is perfect, eternal and final; it endures the test of time. The purpose of the Islamic state is to deliver its message of salvation to humanity, therefore Muslims will be held accountable for not delivering the message. So it is an imperative for the Islamic state to have an expansionist policy. The Islamic system is an expansionist system - not an imperialistic-capitalistic profit hungry machine bent on exploiting the people.

Basically Muslims have to conquer all lands even if they are worthless and will bring no benefit - the goal is a spiritual one, not economic. The only tangible benefits that could be realized from an expanisionist system, is political.

We still think in terms of expansion and it might be somewhat of a heresy to to accept the current state system that grew out of Europe 300 years ago. We're guided by this outlook and confined to it. There is no other alternative, according to my understanding.

There is more to this stuff. I'd be happy to discuss it if I'm not going receive a bunch of "That's such a backward thinging stone ages system blah blah....."

[truAnatolian]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Turks by culture are conquerers, Islam by nature is expansionist. I would say Turkey is the most imperialistically driven country in this world, just as its ottoman forefather.

Also Islam may sound good, but so does communism, in theory. Practice is a completely different element.

in practice I think islam, despite what its SUPPOSED to be, has been used to consolidate forces and conquer countries and resources.

P.s I just ate the greatest Imam bayeldi you could imagine. So theres a point for you, Turkey contributed a good food. Give yourself a pat on the back.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Armenians were too kind in history. Most of the time, we wanted to live in peace. Most of the time, we defended ourselves. We were not the agressors. As such an old nation, we could have had more than one hundred million Armenians living in this world today (had there not been so many destruction and wars in our history).

I am for total extermination of the turkish people. Turks like SoyElTurco and millions of others are and will remain a danger for our country.

[Armenian]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

I'm addressing this on a purely political basis.
A part of Islamic belief is that the Socio-Political and Economic set forth Muhammad is perfect, eternal and final; it endures the test of time.

What's perfect, eternal and final is your backwardness...

Fundamentally speaking, five things has kept the Muslim religion from going by the way of the Dodo bird.

1) Western oil interests in the Middle East

2) The creation of the fortress state of Israel

3) The formation of the Mujahadin in Pakistan/Afghanistan by the CIA

4) The war on terrorism

5) Islam's appeal to simple minded and oppressed peoples

Not sure I understand what you mean here bud.

He means the western elite's 20th century experimentation/flirtation with no borders/globalism is failing and more-and-more nations, like those in Eastern Europe, are beginning to rediscover their cultural/national heritage...

Right, yerazhishda?

P.s I just ate the greatest Imam bayeldi you could imagine. So theres a point for you, Turkey contributed a good food. Give yourself a pat on the back.

Turks have no cuisine per se. Their food is native to Asia Minor. The dish called Imam Bayldi, as its name implies, is not of Turkish or Muslim origin.

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

The dish called Imam Bayldi, as its name implies, is not of Turkish or Muslim origin.

"Imam" is Arabic for "leader" used in a spiritual context.

"Bayildi" means "fainted."

Imam Bayildi = Imam Fainted.