Why couldn't Armenians....

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

If you closer into history you see that there is no real peace, not even during pax romana. During the pax-Romana the Romans were fighting the Persians in the east while they were fighting the Germanic tribes in the west. Maybe there was peace in the places were they ruled but at the borders there was chaos and death.

I did say regional. That's essentially what I meant. The idea is inter-muslim harmony.

Kind of like the U.S. during the nineties, there was technically no war, but the was still maintaining its imperial forces in the exploited countries, making sure nothing compromised its interests.

The world is in a constant state of war and war is in a constant state of flux. War is a traveller, inviting itself to wherever it pleases at its whim.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

I did say regional. That's essentially what I meant. The idea is inter-muslim harmony.

Kind of like the U.S. during the nineties, there was technically no war, but the was still maintaining its imperial forces in the exploited countries, making sure nothing compromised its interests.

The world is in a constant state of war and war is in a constant state of flux. War is a traveller, inviting itself to wherever it pleases at its whim.

I really want to know if there was peace between the Ottomans and Persia the wars for Armenia weren't they beeing fought out? I you have more info please give it. History is a passion of mine.

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

I really want to know if there was peace between the Ottomans and Persia the wars for Armenia weren't they beeing fought out? I you have more info please give it. History is a passion of mine.

Yeah you're right and I'm right. The eastern part of the empire, most of the fertile crescent region, was in a tug of war between Safavids and Ottomans. I think the lecturer meant the Arab territories of the Levant, Hijaz, Syria, Egypt and Algeria. These regions were very loyal for centuries.

A quote you might find interesting: "Had it not been for the Safawids in Iran, we would have been reading the Qur'an this day like the Algerians."
- some ambassador of an an Austrian king.

[Palavra]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Isn't it quite obvious why Turks would, or should, rather have a larger Armenia on their eastern borders than a larger Kurdistan?

Generally speaking, Turks have deep hate and disgust towards Kurds. Too much blood continues to be spilled between them. Kurds are a political nightmare for Ankara. Turkish-Kurdish problems are multidimensional, severe, current and immediate. Kurds make up something like 1/3 of Turkish society. A large/powerful Kurdish state in or adjacent to Turkey has a potential to dismantle the entire Turkish republic. This is the reason why Ankara panics at the mere mention of a Kurdistan. Nonetheless, Turks should not kid themselves, a Kurdish state is inevitable...

Turkish problems with us Armenians are very clear cut. We Armenians simply demand justice for the historic crime committed against our nation during the First World War. We Armenians demand financial reparations and we demand our historic lands, at least a significant portion of it. Beyond the aforementioned, there exists no further potential longterm problems between us and the Turks. I believe that in our diplomatic relations with Ankara we should gradually begin utilizing a new approach; If you don't resolve your problems with us and help us create a larger more powerful state you will potentially risk loosing your republic to the Kurds. I know this approach is very simplistic/fantastic but its merely meant to be a template to work with. If you think about this proposal in a serious geopolitical perspective it will make a lot of sense, from an Armenian perspective and from a Turkish perspective. With our Hai Dat comprehensively resolved, I can foresee Armenia and Turkey having very cordial relations and I can see Armenia being a counterbalance to Kurdistan, which would benefit Iran as well.

If Turkish authorities want to be longsighted and enlightened they would realize that sooner-or-later they are going to lose some of their eastern provinces. Thus, helping create a larger more powerful Armenia can in the longterm benefit the Turkish state as well. Creating a geopolitical balance where no single state holds too much power in the region is one of the fundamental reasons why Israel and the US have decided to prop-up the Kurdish population of northern Iraq. We also need to start working on convincing Ankara, Moscow and Tehran that it's in their longterm interests to expand Armenia at the expense of a potentially large Kurdistan, especially one that is being supported by Washington and Tel Aviv.

Note: The other option would naturally be to work with the Kurds with the intention of toppling the Turkish state... However, this has been tried with the PKK before with very limited success. Plus, with Washington and Tel Aviv now involved in the region's Kurdish equation, I don't know how affective this approach would be if resurrected. Also, let's realize that Kurds are a very unpredictable/unreliable group of people and our historic problems with them are just as bad if not worst than our problems with Turks.

I want that drug too..

[Armanen]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

It's called hemlock, palavra. Take lots and lots of it, also give it to your turk friends too.

[jgk3]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Armanen and Palavra, you guys are walking on a thin line. You didn't notice that I cleaned up a bunch of the posts in this thread already? I deleted your last exchange too.

[Armanen]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Warn the turk for making posts which are sure to get a negative reaction from Armenians. This is exactly why I and others have been saying turks shouldn't be allowed here. But for whatever reason you and the other admins think some sensible turks exist who would waste their time on this forum.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Yeah you're right and I'm right. The eastern part of the empire, most of the fertile crescent region, was in a tug of war between Safavids and Ottomans. I think the lecturer meant the Arab territories of the Levant, Hijaz, Syria, Egypt and Algeria. These regions were very loyal for centuries.

A quote you might find interesting: "Had it not been for the Safawids in Iran, we would have been reading the Qur'an this day like the Algerians."
- some ambassador of an an Austrian king.

You are right, there was peace in the Levant and Arabia for the centuries that the Ottomans ruled over it. And if the Ottomans had defeated the Austrians they would have been a treat to Europe and the pope. They would united against a common enemy. to fight them off.

[Palavra]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

Warn the turk for making posts which are sure to get a negative reaction from Armenians.

Okey. I will just live to make you happy and try to get positive reaction from you. I accept armenian genocide. are you happy? so can I stay at forum? hmmm..

By the way, just for an extra lip service, You looks so handsome..

Armanen and Palavra, you guys are walking on a thin line. You didn't notice that I cleaned up a bunch of the posts in this thread already? I deleted your last exchange too

Hmm ok. Even I think, We need a little more freedom to tease each other, I will not rebel against authorities..

[jgk3]

Re: Why couldn't Armenians....

When Armanen responded in his natural way to you by refering to Turks as sheeple of turgay, I reflected on the fact that there have been complaints about this kind of insult being sustained in the forum regardless of its rules and regulations. That is what I based my action on. If the turks here take these insults a bit less seriously as a whole, perhaps I'll consider it "teasing" from now on.

Again, we will not ban Turks if they abide by the rules. We can keep to our politics, but incessant bashing of eachother is not tolerated, nor is banning anyone just because of their inherent mentality against Armenians in the political domain. Palavra has every right to respond with a statement implying "Dream on" to Armenian's logical discussion of why giving lands to Armenia instead of losing them to a Kurdish state is in Turkey's interests. This is perfectly legitimate. You can tease eachother for that, but I did not like it when it started watering down this thread's quality in terms of good, insightful posts and useful counterarguments.

I'm particularly happy to see what some of us Armenians have contributed in response to the questions asked, though this is something we're used to doing time after time. If you feel bored of this, again, we can work on compiling an archive for referring Turks to whenever they ask their questions.