Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

[Anonymouse]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

I haven't taken any serious courses on economic nor do I self-educate myself on the topic. So I wont debate it...



What valid contribution were you providing with your comments regarding Nefertiti's origin? For some reason, you were simply attempting to belittle/undermine Armenology. I don't know what's your end game here, Anon.



You see Anon, you are doing it again! Stop the BS, the established 'evidence states' Nefertiti was a - MITANNI!!!

Look up Mitanni, they were related to Hurrians. Look up Hurrians, they are one of the major elements within our national makeup. Where have I claimed Nefertiti was Armenian? I have only said she was from the region of historic Armenia. She is "Armenian" in a certain limited sense.

What don't you understand about this? What is your intention? You see what I mean when I bring up your stubbornness getting in the way of your rational?

I don't see why you couldn't civilly and cordially tell me that you never claimed Nefertiti was Armenian. So I misunderstood, but yet you resorted to insults. You do not take criticism or disagreements very well apparently.

What established evidence are you referring to? All I have read is there is debate about Nefertiti's origins and nothing conclusive.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

Let's take another look: A box/basilica shaped building surrounded by tall columns supporting a pitched roof, placed on a high platform with stairs leading up to it and has statues of mythological beasts protecting the entrance...

Again, Urartian constructions predates Greco-Roman structures by centuries... Yet the Garni Temple which looks almost identical to the Musasir Temple was a "Roman" structure, in your opinion?

The Garni Temple was simply a Roman funded construction. Greco-Roman architectures were reinterpretations of Urartian, Egyptian and Sumerian architectures...

Your "Musasir temple" is a stylised relief carving - no building exists, nobody even knows for certain where Musasir was. I doubt whether you have seen a single Urartian temple, or have even been to Garni.
You don't understand the concept of the term "Roman Architecture". It is nothing to do with it being constructed by "Romans".

[Armenian]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

Why not? You should. I have taken classes in economics but that in no way makes me an expert, nor have I claimed expertise.

I haven't taken any serious courses on economic nor do I self-educate myself on the topic. So I wont debate it...

As far as your area of "expertise," that does not in any way make peoples' contributions invalid. I was not even making absolute claims. I was merely pointing out that nationalist historians often times take evidence that fits their mold and project their viewpoints into the past, and all sides have done this, Europeans, Afrocentrists, even Armenians. That is ahistorical. Historiography does not work that way.

What valid contribution were you providing with your comments regarding Nefertiti's origin? For some reason, you were simply attempting to belittle/undermine Armenology. I don't know what's your end game here, Anon.

After all, one can very well claim Nefertiti was more Asian than anything else...

You see Anon, you are doing it again! Stop the BS, the established 'evidence states' Nefertiti was a - MITANNI!!!

Look up Mitanni, they were related to Hurrians. Look up Hurrians, they are one of the major elements within our national makeup. Where have I claimed Nefertiti was Armenian? I have only said she was from the region of historic Armenia. She is "Armenian" in a certain limited sense.

What don't you understand about this? What is your intention?

Are the Mitanni Armenian? No they are not. In one of your videos, you accused either Russell or Ronald Suny of saying that Armenian origins are a result of "intermingling", yet if you sit here and claim the Mittani = Armenian, then surely there was some intermingling, no? Please address this because maybe I'm confused.

The Mitanni were Armenian Highlanders and they were offshoots of us Armenians. Why are you so incensed about this issue? I have always claimed that Armenians are a mix of Anatolian and Caucasian nations/tribes. This does not mean Armenians are racially mixed.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

You know I love melodrama, Anon. My melodrama makes this place exciting. No? But your less than intellectual comments regarding Nefertiti's origin created anything but an intellectual atmosphere. I don't go to loggerheads with you regarding economics (your area of expertise),

Why not? You should. I have taken classes in economics but that in no way makes me an expert, nor have I claimed expertise. Being an expert in something requires years of study, training and working in that particular field. With that said, neither you nor I are experts in the true sense of the word - maybe for internet purposes. In fact, you displayed you aren't ignorant of economics when we have talked about it. Does someone have dibs on certain topics and others do not? And just because I may have read a few more books, does that make your viewpoints any less worthy of being aired? Why do you presume there are intellectual Berlin walls regarding certain topics?

likewise when it comes to Armenology I would expect you to at least do some research about what I am talking about before you attempt to form an opinion.

As far as your area of "expertise," that does not in any way make peoples' contributions invalid. I was not even making absolute claims. I was merely pointing out that nationalist historians often times take evidence that fits their mold and project their viewpoints into the past, and all sides have done this, Europeans, Afrocentrists, even Armenians. That is ahistorical. Historiography does not work that way.

After all, one can very well claim Nefertiti was more Asian than anything else.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Nefertiti_30-01-2006.jpg

Furthermore, here is an interesting entry by a *gasp* Jewish historian:

Eusebius, writing in the early 4th century, quoted fragments of Eupolemus, a now-lost xxxish historian of the 2nd century BC, as saying that "around the time of Abraham, the Armenians invaded the Syrians". This may correspond approximately to the arrival of the Mitanni, since Abraham is traditionally assumed at around the 17th century BC. The association of Mitanni with Urartu, and of Urartu with Armenia plays a certain role in Armenian nationalist historiography.[17]

Some Kurdish scholars believe that one of their clans, the Mattini which live in the same geographical region, preserves the name of Mitanni [4].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitanni

Are the Mitanni Armenian? No they are not. In one of your videos, you accused either Russell or Ronald Suny of saying that Armenian origins are a result of "intermingling", yet if you sit here and claim the Mittani = Armenian, then surely there was some intermingling, no? Please address this because maybe I'm confused.

[Armenian]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

The above is a garbled version of a probable connection between Urartian temples and temple storehouses (8th-6th century BC) and the multi-columned Iranian audience hall architecture (apadana) from the 6th-5th century BC.

Perhaps they are "connected" or related to Persian constructions... However, if I'm not mistaken, the earliest major Persian constructions date back to the 6th century BC. Urartian constructions, be it fortresses, temples or palaces predate Persian ones by hundreds of years. So, logic would state, the 'connection' or 'relation' is from Urartu to Persia.

Moreover, complex constructions of Catal Huyuk, Gobekli Tepe, Sumer and perhaps Metsamor, predate Egyptian constructions as well.

No matter how one looks at it, based on the available evidences in archeology, anthropology and linguistics, the origin and epicenter of advanced early human civilization was in the Armenian Highlands.

For reasons yet undisclosed, western academia which is naturally led by organized Jewry (yes, ethnicity is important when it becomes an obvious demographic factor) refuses to even seriously discuss this.

However, Iranian audience halls are very different from Roman-period temples and nobody who built the Garni temple would have had those earlier forms in mind when designing it. Garni is an example of the Roman architectural style, it came directly from Rome and it did not emerge in Armenia from an independant architectural tradition.

Let's take another look: A box/basilica shaped building surrounded by tall columns supporting a pitched roof, placed on a high platform with stairs leading up to it and has statues of mythological beasts protecting the entrance...

Again, Urartian constructions predates Greco-Roman structures by centuries... Yet the Garni Temple which looks almost identical to the Musasir Temple was a "Roman" structure, in your opinion?

The Garni Temple was simply a Roman funded construction. Greco-Roman architectures were reinterpretations of Urartian, Egyptian and Sumerian architectures...

You can find the Urartu to Iran to Greece to Rome connections mentioned in all good books about classical architecture. If you have't heard about them, you just haven't been looking at the right books.

Yes, I agree. It's Urartu - to Iran - to Greece - to Rome...

BTW, the word "apadana" is still preserved in Armenian as "aparank", meaning palace.

There are many ancient Persian/Parthian terms preserved in the Armenian language due to the close political union that existed between Armenian kingdoms and the Persian empire before Armenia's adoption of Christianity...

What's your point; that Armenian has Persian lone words in it?

And your point is?

Do you know that English is one of the world's most bastardized languages?

The word for "palace" in Armenian is "palat." As a matter of fact, "aparank" is seldom used in modern Armenian.

Note: I have 'never' claimed that we Armenians were the originators of this prehistoric civilization... Although such a conviction would not be too far-fetched, I, nonetheless, would not be able to back it up by hard evidence. Such a statement can only be a conjecture based on a plausible theory. What I have said is that we Armenians are the survivors/remnants of the native tribes of the Armenian Highlands that gave birth to human civilization.

[jgk3]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

it is permitted here: http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread.php?t=16002

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

Carry on in this fashion. Thank you.

The fashion I wanted was to say that "Armenian's" Armenology thread is full of pseudo-science, pseudo-history, and pseudo-archaeology. But it seems that discussion along those lines is not to be permitted here.

[jgk3]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

The above is a garbled version of a probable connection between Urartian temples and temple storehouses (8th-6th century BC) and the multi-columned Iranian audience hall architecture (apadana) from the 6th-5th century BC.
However, Iranian audience halls are very different from Roman-period temples and nobody who built the Garni temple would have had those earlier forms in mind when designing it. Garni is an example of the Roman architectural style, it came directly from Rome and it did not emerge in Armenia from an independant architectural tradition. You can find the Urartu to Iran to Greece to Rome connections mentioned in all good books about classical architecture. If you have't heard about them, you just haven't been looking at the right books.

BTW, the word "apadana" is still preserved in Armenian as "aparank", meaning palace.

Carry on in this fashion. Thank you.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

Anoush jan, what you have heard is correct, but it has to be explained in better terms. The 'style' of architecture represented by the Greco-Roman inspired Garni temple in Armenia seems to have originated within the Armenian highlands and perhaps Egypt. The same applies to Greco-Roman arts. It needs to be said here that many aspects of Roman society was also effected/influenced by the ancient Etruscan. And if looked closely, you would see that the Etruscans themselves originated in Asia Minor...

What most Armenians, including our self-hating pseudo-historians in America, don't take into account when speaking of the classical architecture of Greeks and Romans is the Urartian 'temple of Musasir' that preceded classical Greek and Roman architecture.

Here is an image of the temple. Notice the stairs leading up to a platform where a box like building sits surrounded by columns supporting a pitched roof: http://www.arthistory.upenn.edu/smr0.../Slide5.15.jpg

Here is more information on the temple: http://www.geocities.com/paris/leftb...onicle400.html

Now, explain to me how the first century AD Roman funded temple at Garni is only a reflection of what Greeks or Romans produced? When have you heard an Armenian or a western historian bring up the temple at Musasir in their analysis of classical architecture? I haven't heard it yet. What I only hear is how the Garni temple is a Roman architecture in Armenia...

The above is a garbled version of a probable connection between Urartian temples and temple storehouses (8th-6th century BC) and the multi-columned Iranian audience hall architecture (apadana) from the 6th-5th century BC.
However, Iranian audience halls are very different from Roman-period temples and nobody who built the Garni temple would have had those earlier forms in mind when designing it. Garni is an example of the Roman architectural style, it came directly from Rome and it did not emerge in Armenia from an independant architectural tradition. You can find the Urartu to Iran to Greece to Rome connections mentioned in all good books about classical architecture. If you have't heard about them, you just haven't been looking at the right books.

BTW, the word "apadana" is still preserved in Armenian as "aparank", meaning palace.

[Anoush]

Re: Հայաբանութիւն - Armenology

Armenian jan, medsabes shenorhagal em havelyal "site"eroun hamar. Yes al shad arachnahert tebrotsagan em yeghads azkayin ou enthanour badmoutyan mech minchev yergrortagan varjaran yev shad ge sireyi badmoutyoun gartal ou kidnal anonts masin. Ador hamar shad ge kenahadem ays badmoutyan iroghoutyounnere, manavant vor mer azkayin badmoutyounnern en yev meds hebardank ge peren angasgads polor Hayerous hamar.

Teyev menatsyal ashxarhe meds masamp chi kider ays iroghoutyounnere yev masnavorabes bahads e vor irenk paylin ashxarhi vera payts voch menk; sagayn mezi hamar aveli garevor e ayjem vor kone menk Hayeres kidnank, hebardanank yev mer abaka serounte ge housank vor kone sharounage mer Hayabahbanman oughin yev pan men al aveltsene ays polor herashalikneroun vera!!!