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Armenian unity as a political, social and military force during the genocide years

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  • Armenian unity as a political, social and military force during the genocide years

    Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
    yes, it is a worthy comparison londontsi, that is why we must be serious about defending NK no matter what... Whenever Armenians chose not to defend a given Armenian territory just because they felt no attachment to it in particular, they ended up losing it to Turks. It is the prime reason why we lost Western Armenia in 1918 after the Russians pulled out. Russian Armenians at the time felt no interest in fighting a war of "Turkish Armenians", who were flooding Russian Armenia as refugees and were not looked upon very nicely by the "natives" in those days.

    It is truly ridiculous to be divided like this, it must stop now and our politicians who seek to divide us as Armenians should be removed from power and put to justice. At the end of the day, we must all see each other as the same people trying to help the same country.
    I fully appreciate and agree with the above statements!!! Said for truth!!!! We are small, we are landlocked, we are even small in numbers. The very least we can do is to be UNITED!!!
    Հա'յ ժողովուրդ, քո միա'կ բրկութիւնը քո հաւաքական ուժի մէջ է:

  • #2
    Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
    yes, it is a worthy comparison londontsi, that is why we must be serious about defending NK no matter what... Whenever Armenians chose not to defend a given Armenian territory just because they felt no attachment to it in particular, they ended up losing it to Turks. It is the prime reason why we lost Western Armenia in 1918 after the Russians pulled out. Russian Armenians at the time felt no interest in fighting a war of "Turkish Armenians", who were flooding Russian Armenia as refugees and were not looked upon very nicely by the "natives" in those days.
    It is truly ridiculous to be divided like this, it must stop now and our politicians who seek to divide us as Armenians should be removed from power and put to justice. At the end of the day, we must all see eachother as the same people trying to help the same country.
    Can u provide eny source?Russian Armenians left west armenia ????
    It were Russian that recalled in other frontiers armenians were left behind.
    Were did u get that?Falsified history u got there.Never say that again it disgrace our nation.
    If u have problem with armenian speaking russian say it but not in that way.
    You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Russian Armenian soldiers remained behind, but they did no fighting until they lost Kars without firing a single bullet in protest. Kars, a city they could identify with as part of their Russian Armenian borders, was sold out to the Turks. The Russian Armenians played along with the Treaty of Batum, and expected that Turks would stop their bloodshed at those borders. For this reason, they did not bother to defend Erzerum in 1918, a fortress-city that had enough ammunition and provisions to last at least a year under siege, and with combined Armenian forces that for the first time in the entire history of the Armenian revolutionary movement, outnumbed the Turkish detachment on its eastern frontier.

      Instead, the Russian Armenian soldiers had no moral to fight a battle they did not consider their own, and abandoned General Antranik and General Nazarbekian at the prime moment when they could finally liberate Western Armenia and naturally defend Russian Armenia by doing so. They fled back to Tblisi, Karabagh, etc... without firing a bullet.

      My source is "General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.

      If you have alternate sources which refute what I have described, I am all ears.

      If not, I will "disgrace our nation" until you kill me, or until we all commit ourselves to never divide ourselves again like this. Believe me, this is not an attack on Russian Armenians, but on how we failed to act as a united nation during the bloodiest chapter of our history. Turkish Armenia was not as united as it needed to be either in order to prevent the genocide there, they suffered from wishful thinking by appeasing Turks. They had to bleed almost to death to realize once and for all that only by fighting could they secure their lives and dignity. Unfortunately, Russian Armenians needed to go through the same hell before they belatedly came upon the same realization, in the process, not defending Erzerum or Kars, not even firing a bullet at the enemy when they occupied them.

      Sardarabad was the moment when Armenians came together at last, for the first time, to actually make a united fight against the advancing Turkish Army. Syunik, Artsakh and even Nakhitchevan were the regions of Russian Armenia that tried a true local resistance to Turks, Syunik's resistance being so worthy that it was able to singlehandedly repell the British from annexing it to Azerbaijan the way it did to Karabagh. Unfortunately, Nakhitchevan and Artsakh did not fare so well, but today's Artsakhtsis have performed miracles that only having a true warrior spirit can accomplish.
      It is these examples of heroism that are a light for the Armenians to follow, not blind defense of anything our people have ever done, especially when it hurt our nation by unnecessarily surrendering thousands of souls to be massacred or turning proud once families who worked hard on their land into widowed or orphaned refugees if they were lucky enough to survive.
      Last edited by jgk3; 07-04-2009, 02:12 PM.
      I was taught how to think.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
        .....they did not bother to defend Erzerum in 1918, a fortress-city that had enough ammunition and provisions to last at least a year under siege, and with combined Armenian forces that for the first time in the entire history of the Armenian revolutionary movement, outnumbed the Turkish detachment on its eastern frontier.....
        Do you think it would have been possible for them to know such intelligence? It would crazy if they actually knew.
        B0zkurt Hunter

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
          Russian Armenian soldiers remained behind, but they did no fighting until they lost Kars without firing a single bullet in protest. Kars, a city they could identify with as part of their Russian Armenian borders, was sold out to the Turks. The Russian Armenians played along with the Treaty of Batum, and expected that Turks would stop their bloodshed at those borders. For this reason, they did not bother to defend Erzerum in 1918, a fortress-city that had enough ammunition and provisions to last at least a year under siege, and with combined Armenian forces that for the first time in the entire history of the Armenian revolutionary movement, outnumbed the Turkish detachment on its eastern frontier.

          Instead, the Russian Armenian soldiers had no moral to fight a battle they did not consider their own, and abandoned General Antranik and General Nazarbekian at the prime moment when they could finally liberate Western Armenia and naturally defend Russian Armenia by doing so. They fled back to Tblisi, Karabagh, etc... without firing a bullet.

          My source is "General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.

          If you have alternate sources which refute what I have described, I am all ears.

          If not, I will "disgrace our nation" until you kill me, or until we all commit ourselves to never divide ourselves again like this. Believe me, this is not an attack on Russian Armenians, but on how we failed to act as a united nation during the bloodiest chapter of our history. Turkish Armenia was not as united as it needed to be either in order to prevent the genocide there, they suffered from wishful thinking by appeasing Turks. They had to bleed almost to death to realize once and for all that only by fighting could they secure their lives and dignity. Unfortunately, Russian Armenians needed to go through the same hell before they belatedly came upon the same realization, in the process, not defending Erzerum or Kars, not even firing a bullet at the enemy when they occupied them.

          Sardarabad was the moment when Armenians came together at last, for the first time, to actually make a united fight against the advancing Turkish Army. Syunik, Artsakh and even Nakhitchevan were the regions of Russian Armenia that tried a true local resistance to Turks, Syunik's resistance being so worthy that it was able to singlehandedly repell the British from annexing it to Azerbaijan the way it did to Karabagh. Unfortunately, Nakhitchevan and Artsakh did not fare so well, but today's Artsakhtsis have performed miracles that only having a true warrior spirit can accomplish.
          It is these examples of heroism that are a light for the Armenians to follow, not blind defense of anything our people have ever done, especially when it hurt our nation by unnecessarily surrendering thousands of souls to be massacred or turning proud once families who worked hard on their land into widowed or orphaned refugees if they were lucky enough to survive.
          Thank you very much for that lesson of history. It may be useful for the ones who still are under soviet/Russian propaganda.
          Death or Freedom!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
            Do you think it would have been possible for them to know such intelligence? It would crazy if they actually knew.

            Well... Armenians also can be cowards some times....not often, but history says it happens......
            Last edited by Mukuch; 07-04-2009, 04:09 PM.
            Death or Freedom!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Mukuch View Post
              Well... Armenians also can be cowards some times....not often, but history says it happens......

              Armenians Cowards?In wars?History wene were?

              The russian propaganda whas to not talk about the past.In Armenia situation were much diferent than other states,we did not had suppresion in religion the main core for our traditions history culture.

              We were outnumbered in almost all the wars we had don't forget that.


              "General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.I will try to find the book.I can't find eny of the above in eny place at the web.

              I would like to have his book can u provide me some part of the book about the battles?
              Last edited by UrMistake; 07-04-2009, 05:12 PM.
              You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                I think that Armenia should scare the Turks, Azeri's,etc silly by saying that Armenia will form closer ties with Iran to fight foreign aggression...then that's just me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
                  Russian Armenian soldiers remained behind, but they did no fighting until they lost Kars without firing a single bullet in protest. Kars, a city they could identify with as part of their Russian Armenian borders, was sold out to the Turks. The Russian Armenians played along with the Treaty of Batum, and expected that Turks would stop their bloodshed at those borders. For this reason, they did not bother to defend Erzerum in 1918, a fortress-city that had enough ammunition and provisions to last at least a year under siege, and with combined Armenian forces that for the first time in the entire history of the Armenian revolutionary movement, outnumbed the Turkish detachment on its eastern frontier.

                  Instead, the Russian Armenian soldiers had no moral to fight a battle they did not consider their own, and abandoned General Antranik and General Nazarbekian at the prime moment when they could finally liberate Western Armenia and naturally defend Russian Armenia by doing so. They fled back to Tblisi, Karabagh, etc... without firing a bullet.

                  My source is "General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.

                  If you have alternate sources which refute what I have described, I am all ears.

                  If not, I will "disgrace our nation" until you kill me, or until we all commit ourselves to never divide ourselves again like this. Believe me, this is not an attack on Russian Armenians, but on how we failed to act as a united nation during the bloodiest chapter of our history. Turkish Armenia was not as united as it needed to be either in order to prevent the genocide there, they suffered from wishful thinking by appeasing Turks. They had to bleed almost to death to realize once and for all that only by fighting could they secure their lives and dignity. Unfortunately, Russian Armenians needed to go through the same hell before they belatedly came upon the same realization, in the process, not defending Erzerum or Kars, not even firing a bullet at the enemy when they occupied them.

                  Sardarabad was the moment when Armenians came together at last, for the first time, to actually make a united fight against the advancing Turkish Army. Syunik, Artsakh and even Nakhitchevan were the regions of Russian Armenia that tried a true local resistance to Turks, Syunik's resistance being so worthy that it was able to singlehandedly repell the British from annexing it to Azerbaijan the way it did to Karabagh. Unfortunately, Nakhitchevan and Artsakh did not fare so well, but today's Artsakhtsis have performed miracles that only having a true warrior spirit can accomplish.
                  It is these examples of heroism that are a light for the Armenians to follow, not blind defense of anything our people have ever done, especially when it hurt our nation by unnecessarily surrendering thousands of souls to be massacred or turning proud once families who worked hard on their land into widowed or orphaned refugees if they were lucky enough to survive.
                  Hovannasian also discusses the issue of seperations and discord between Western & Eastern Armenians in all volumes of his "The Republic of Armenia".
                  Most Western Armenians never referred to anything other than the Ararat Republic.
                  Sardarabad,1918.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Originally posted by UrMistake View Post
                    Armenians Cowards?In wars?History wene were?

                    The russian propaganda whas to not talk about the past.In Armenia situation were much diferent than other states,we did not had suppresion in religion the main core for our traditions history culture.

                    We were outnumbered in almost all the wars we had don't forget that.


                    "General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.I will try to find the book.I can't find eny of the above in eny place at the web.

                    I would like to have his book can u provide me some part of the book about the battles?
                    Common lets face the truth... the Erzrum and Kars were shame....
                    Death or Freedom!

                    Comment

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