Armenian unity as a political, social and military force during the genocide years

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Anastas Mikoyan was sent to Armenia to organise/run the purges as if we hadn't suffered enough by then.
We lost many intellectuals as well as ordinary folk.
The question has to be will present and future leaders stop being organs of the foreign powers.
A lot depends on the ordinary people. They must articulate their opposition rather than act like "loyal" sheep. Easier said than done I fear.

[UrMistake]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Anastas Mikoyan people that are friend with Staline worth the hell.He were politican seeking power.He belived in Soviet Union more than Armenia.The man achived his goals we live in his created world.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenians back then were not the same what they are now, after being under foreign rule for almost 600 years they come to govern themselves. You also got 2 communities in the west and the east. One has been influenced by the Turks and the others by the Russian and Persians. There was very little contact between the two communities.

And look at the other countries living under Turkish rule almost all of them got out of Turkish rule, we were one of the very few who didn't rebel on a large scale. There were a few cities that rebelled but most of the Armenians stayed loyal. Even during the genocide they stayed loyal. They were happy that they could live their lives in peace even if they had to pay for it. Most of our people weren't nationalistic at all. There was a little minority in every city.

Like I said in the beginning they were a very different people of what we have become today. And why do you tell only about Russian Armenians and not Turkish Armenians. Because some of them didn't even think that Russian Armenians were real Armenians and they were the only ones that were the real ones. So both of them are guilty. And let us not forget our leaders who were stupid enough to sign away those lands. Let us hope we wont get any leader like that in the future. because this time it will be our end.

And this wasn't the first time look at our history and you will see that Armenians were a lot of times fighting against each other and even fighting in the enemy army against Hayastan. Let's take Vartanank as an example some of the major houses were fighting for the Persians against Vartan, so this isn't really new things like that.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Russian Armenian soldiers remained behind, but they did no fighting until they lost Kars without firing a single bullet in protest. Kars, a city they could identify with as part of their Russian Armenian borders, was sold out to the Turks. The Russian Armenians played along with the Treaty of Batum, and expected that Turks would stop their bloodshed at those borders. For this reason, they did not bother to defend Erzerum in 1918, a fortress-city that had enough ammunition and provisions to last at least a year under siege, and with combined Armenian forces that for the first time in the entire history of the Armenian revolutionary movement, outnumbed the Turkish detachment on its eastern frontier.

Instead, the Russian Armenian soldiers had no moral to fight a battle they did not consider their own, and abandoned General Antranik and General Nazarbekian at the prime moment when they could finally liberate Western Armenia and naturally defend Russian Armenia by doing so. They fled back to Tblisi, Karabagh, etc... without firing a bullet.

My source is "General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.

If you have alternate sources which refute what I have described, I am all ears.

If not, I will "disgrace our nation" until you kill me, or until we all commit ourselves to never divide ourselves again like this. Believe me, this is not an attack on Russian Armenians, but on how we failed to act as a united nation during the bloodiest chapter of our history. Turkish Armenia was not as united as it needed to be either in order to prevent the genocide there, they suffered from wishful thinking by appeasing Turks. They had to bleed almost to death to realize once and for all that only by fighting could they secure their lives and dignity. Unfortunately, Russian Armenians needed to go through the same hell before they belatedly came upon the same realization, in the process, not defending Erzerum or Kars, not even firing a bullet at the enemy when they occupied them.

Sardarabad was the moment when Armenians came together at last, for the first time, to actually make a united fight against the advancing Turkish Army. Syunik, Artsakh and even Nakhitchevan were the regions of Russian Armenia that tried a true local resistance to Turks, Syunik's resistance being so worthy that it was able to singlehandedly repell the British from annexing it to Azerbaijan the way it did to Karabagh. Unfortunately, Nakhitchevan and Artsakh did not fare so well, but today's Artsakhtsis have performed miracles that only having a true warrior spirit can accomplish.
It is these examples of heroism that are a light for the Armenians to follow, not blind defense of anything our people have ever done, especially when it hurt our nation by unnecessarily surrendering thousands of souls to be massacred or turning proud once families who worked hard on their land into widowed or orphaned refugees if they were lucky enough to survive.

Sadly, this is true. Also, read about Anastas Mikoyan, he was one of the worst cowards, he and his band of "soldiers". The battlefield performance {or non-performance} of the Armenian dilitantes from Tiflis was the worst though. They had fine horse, guns and uniforms but avoided battle at all costs.

[Mukuch]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenians Cowards?In wars?History wene were?

The russian propaganda whas to not talk about the past.In Armenia situation were much diferent than other states,we did not had suppresion in religion the main core for our traditions history culture.

We were outnumbered in almost all the wars we had don't forget that.


"General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.I will try to find the book.I can't find eny of the above in eny place at the web.

I would like to have his book can u provide me some part of the book about the battles?

Common lets face the truth... the Erzrum and Kars were shame....

[hrai]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Russian Armenian soldiers remained behind, but they did no fighting until they lost Kars without firing a single bullet in protest. Kars, a city they could identify with as part of their Russian Armenian borders, was sold out to the Turks. The Russian Armenians played along with the Treaty of Batum, and expected that Turks would stop their bloodshed at those borders. For this reason, they did not bother to defend Erzerum in 1918, a fortress-city that had enough ammunition and provisions to last at least a year under siege, and with combined Armenian forces that for the first time in the entire history of the Armenian revolutionary movement, outnumbed the Turkish detachment on its eastern frontier.

Instead, the Russian Armenian soldiers had no moral to fight a battle they did not consider their own, and abandoned General Antranik and General Nazarbekian at the prime moment when they could finally liberate Western Armenia and naturally defend Russian Armenia by doing so. They fled back to Tblisi, Karabagh, etc... without firing a bullet.

My source is "General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.

If you have alternate sources which refute what I have described, I am all ears.

If not, I will "disgrace our nation" until you kill me, or until we all commit ourselves to never divide ourselves again like this. Believe me, this is not an attack on Russian Armenians, but on how we failed to act as a united nation during the bloodiest chapter of our history. Turkish Armenia was not as united as it needed to be either in order to prevent the genocide there, they suffered from wishful thinking by appeasing Turks. They had to bleed almost to death to realize once and for all that only by fighting could they secure their lives and dignity. Unfortunately, Russian Armenians needed to go through the same hell before they belatedly came upon the same realization, in the process, not defending Erzerum or Kars, not even firing a bullet at the enemy when they occupied them.

Sardarabad was the moment when Armenians came together at last, for the first time, to actually make a united fight against the advancing Turkish Army. Syunik, Artsakh and even Nakhitchevan were the regions of Russian Armenia that tried a true local resistance to Turks, Syunik's resistance being so worthy that it was able to singlehandedly repell the British from annexing it to Azerbaijan the way it did to Karabagh. Unfortunately, Nakhitchevan and Artsakh did not fare so well, but today's Artsakhtsis have performed miracles that only having a true warrior spirit can accomplish.
It is these examples of heroism that are a light for the Armenians to follow, not blind defense of anything our people have ever done, especially when it hurt our nation by unnecessarily surrendering thousands of souls to be massacred or turning proud once families who worked hard on their land into widowed or orphaned refugees if they were lucky enough to survive.

Hovannasian also discusses the issue of seperations and discord between Western & Eastern Armenians in all volumes of his "The Republic of Armenia".
Most Western Armenians never referred to anything other than the Ararat Republic.

[hipeter924]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I think that Armenia should scare the Turks, Azeri's,etc silly by saying that Armenia will form closer ties with Iran to fight foreign aggression...then that's just me.

[UrMistake]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Well... Armenians also can be cowards some times....not often, but history says it happens......

Armenians Cowards?In wars?History wene were?

The russian propaganda whas to not talk about the past.In Armenia situation were much diferent than other states,we did not had suppresion in religion the main core for our traditions history culture.

We were outnumbered in almost all the wars we had don't forget that.


"General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.I will try to find the book.I can't find eny of the above in eny place at the web.

I would like to have his book can u provide me some part of the book about the battles?

[Mukuch]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Do you think it would have been possible for them to know such intelligence? It would crazy if they actually knew.

Well... Armenians also can be cowards some times....not often, but history says it happens......

[Mukuch]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Russian Armenian soldiers remained behind, but they did no fighting until they lost Kars without firing a single bullet in protest. Kars, a city they could identify with as part of their Russian Armenian borders, was sold out to the Turks. The Russian Armenians played along with the Treaty of Batum, and expected that Turks would stop their bloodshed at those borders. For this reason, they did not bother to defend Erzerum in 1918, a fortress-city that had enough ammunition and provisions to last at least a year under siege, and with combined Armenian forces that for the first time in the entire history of the Armenian revolutionary movement, outnumbed the Turkish detachment on its eastern frontier.

Instead, the Russian Armenian soldiers had no moral to fight a battle they did not consider their own, and abandoned General Antranik and General Nazarbekian at the prime moment when they could finally liberate Western Armenia and naturally defend Russian Armenia by doing so. They fled back to Tblisi, Karabagh, etc... without firing a bullet.

My source is "General Antranik and the Armenian Revolutionary Movement" by Antranig Chalabian.

If you have alternate sources which refute what I have described, I am all ears.

If not, I will "disgrace our nation" until you kill me, or until we all commit ourselves to never divide ourselves again like this. Believe me, this is not an attack on Russian Armenians, but on how we failed to act as a united nation during the bloodiest chapter of our history. Turkish Armenia was not as united as it needed to be either in order to prevent the genocide there, they suffered from wishful thinking by appeasing Turks. They had to bleed almost to death to realize once and for all that only by fighting could they secure their lives and dignity. Unfortunately, Russian Armenians needed to go through the same hell before they belatedly came upon the same realization, in the process, not defending Erzerum or Kars, not even firing a bullet at the enemy when they occupied them.

Sardarabad was the moment when Armenians came together at last, for the first time, to actually make a united fight against the advancing Turkish Army. Syunik, Artsakh and even Nakhitchevan were the regions of Russian Armenia that tried a true local resistance to Turks, Syunik's resistance being so worthy that it was able to singlehandedly repell the British from annexing it to Azerbaijan the way it did to Karabagh. Unfortunately, Nakhitchevan and Artsakh did not fare so well, but today's Artsakhtsis have performed miracles that only having a true warrior spirit can accomplish.
It is these examples of heroism that are a light for the Armenians to follow, not blind defense of anything our people have ever done, especially when it hurt our nation by unnecessarily surrendering thousands of souls to be massacred or turning proud once families who worked hard on their land into widowed or orphaned refugees if they were lucky enough to survive.

Thank you very much for that lesson of history. It may be useful for the ones who still are under soviet/Russian propaganda.