Political prisoners in Armenia

[retro]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Hello Londontsi

Although the masses will always demand greater accountability, whilst at the same time desiring less responsibility.

As Ronald Reagan said: "Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem."

[londontsi]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Besides, authoritarian regimes are not always bad. As long as the regime works for the benefit of the people and not for one's pockets or selfish gains, then it should be accepted and supported.

Federate
On the surface this sounds logical and I think short term produces results provided all conditions you have set are met.

But one has to ask why the need for the authoritanism.

This reminds me of the British Civil service which on the whole are more secretive than other simmilar coutries. The reason is not because they want to protect national secrets but hide their xxxxups.

In the case of Armenian Goverments thus far the reasons have been different ..... you name them and I will shake my head.

[londontsi]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Artsakh does not and will not have an authoritarian regime simply because there is not enough people.

The population is not divided, not even close to it. Everyone agrees on almost all issues unanimously. Besides, authoritarian regimes are not always bad. As long as the regime works for the benefit of the people and not for one's pockets or selfish gains, then it should be accepted and supported.

Artsakh itself does not have an autoritarian regime but Armenia does. In fact Bako Sahakian was critical on an occasion of Armenian leaders democratic credentials.

We have to accept Artsakh's strength and long term success is dependent on strong and succesful of Armenia. That's were the Achellies heel if there is one lies.

[Eddo211]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Artsakh is respected at a different level and held at a much higher class. The reality of its independence cannot be avoided.


Here is the official NKR Governments position:

The Nagorno-Karabakh Republic is fully committed to the peaceful resolution of the conflict with Azerbaijan and has agreed to restart full-fledged negotiations without any preconditions. We welcome the continued active involvement of the U.S. Congress in the search for peace and stability in the region, and we call on the government of Azerbaijan to abandon its war rhetoric and anti-Armenian propaganda. In order to contribute to the establishment of an atmosphere of tolerance and trust, we propose to the Government of Azerbaijan to agree to a set of confidence building measures with Nagorno Karabakh. We find Azerbaijan's rejection of Nagorno Karabakh as a full party to the peace negotiations counterproductive. We also ask the U.S. Congress to continue its efforts in advancing a peaceful resolution to the Nagorno Karabakh conflict by ensuring that Nagorno Karabakh is a full participant throughout the negotiating process.

http://www.nkrusa.org/nk_conflict/nkr_position.shtml

[Federate]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Artsakh does not and will not have an authoritarian regime simply because there is not enough people. The Tamils were millions while Artsakhtsis are barely 140 000. The population is not divided, not even close to it. Everyone agrees on almost all issues unanimously. Besides, authoritarian regimes are not always bad. As long as the regime works for the benefit of the people and not for one's pockets or selfish gains, then it should be accepted and supported.

[londontsi]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Mukuch
I am not for a moment suggesting that Karabagh will end up like Tamils. Militarily we are confident and arguably have the upper hand. That's why we have peace, well almost.

In a game, when a strong competitor ends up losing the game, post analysis will show that there were only one or two bad moves which resulted in the loss of the game despite having a strong board.

We seem to have a strong board (despite the jitters from time to time about being sold out etc).
But what we must do is to avoid those one or two mistakes.

[Tongue]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Attacking Armenia is the last thing turkey cares about today. Today Armenia for turkeyis just another unsignificant neithbour which got very iritating diaspora.

Turkey? When did I say anything about Turkey. I was talking about Azerbaijan and Karabakh.

You must be very naive if you think Armenia is independent of Russia and talking of powerfull "friend". Russia is no one’s friend. All Russia cares about is Russia.

Of course it does, why wouldn't it? So does every other country in the world. At the moment, having Russia is crucial to our survival. I could care less about what Russia cares about, as long as they can benefit us, we should keep them close.

[Mukuch]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Regarding Monte I have read a thread where his brother was discounting the possibility of him being murdered by our side and as pointed out his death is well documented.

Any story which is put forward to enhance an argument political or otherwise at the expense of one of our national heroes and create a confusion of his legacy should be nipped in the bud.

Having said that it causes me anger and frustration that our people should be subjected to such treatment by the "authorities".
The word authorities has a ring about it as if its an occupying force, which its not.
These are our people who in pursuit of their self interest have forgotten how frail our nation is compared to its enemies who through their actions are causing divisions within our nation.

I would like to bring as a recent historical example to illustrate why we cannot be complacent.

The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka were one of the most organized and feared insurgency groups in the world ( read Karabagh has one of the best armies of the CIS)

The Sri Lankan Government was unable to overcome them for years ( read For years Azerbaijan was unable to bring Karabagh to its knees)

The TT had a very authoritarian leader which produced success. ( read Armenia has an authoritarian government which seem to contribute the Karabagh cause)

It appeared that Sri Lanka and its rebels were in a stalemate. ( read Armenians and Azeris are in a stalemate.)

However this authoritarianism caused a major split among the TT. (read There is discord among the Armenian people)

At an opportune moment Sri Lankan government got the military and economic help in exchange for Naval bases from China. (read ..............)

When the Sri Lankan government started the offensive the TT division was too bitter and did not heal. ( read ................................)

Once the balance was tipped there was no going back. The TT and its people were decimated.

I REST MY CASE.

Yes the end of Tamil resistance was tragic... lets hope Karabakh will not end up like Tamil.. Although I must admit that similarities are there but you cant really compare the situation. TT was alone (some insignificant Indian support) Karabakh got Armenia. And Armenian potential if not equal than at least comparable with azerbajans.
But I must agree with you about authoritarism it can bring a nation to dead end.

[londontsi]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Regarding Monte I have read a thread where his brother was discounting the possibility of him being murdered by our side and as pointed out his death is well documented.

Any story which is put forward to enhance an argument political or otherwise at the expense of one of our national heroes and create a confusion of his legacy should be nipped in the bud.

Having said that it causes me anger and frustration that our people should be subjected to such treatment by the "authorities".
The word authorities has a ring about it as if its an occupying force, which its not.
These are our people who in pursuit of their self interest have forgotten how frail our nation is compared to its enemies who through their actions are causing divisions within our nation.

I would like to bring as a recent historical example to illustrate why we cannot be complacent.

The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka were one of the most organized and feared insurgency groups in the world ( read Karabagh has one of the best armies of the CIS)

The Sri Lankan Government was unable to overcome them for years ( read For years Azerbaijan was unable to bring Karabagh to its knees)

The TT had a very authoritarian leader which produced success. ( read Armenia has an authoritarian government which seem to contribute the Karabagh cause)

It appeared that Sri Lanka and its rebels were in a stalemate. ( read Armenians and Azeris are in a stalemate.)

However this authoritarianism caused a major split among the TT. (read There is discord among the Armenian people)

At an opportune moment Sri Lankan government got the military and economic help in exchange for Naval bases from China. (read ..............)

When the Sri Lankan government started the offensive the TT division was too bitter and did not heal. ( read ................................)

Once the balance was tipped there was no going back. The TT and its people were decimated.

I REST MY CASE.

[Eddo211]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

You cannot be that naive. If it wasn't for Russia, Azerbaijan had attacked Armenia to take Karabakh back by now! The only reason they have not attacked us is because a powerful country like Russia has our back. You possibly can't believe that US or even UN would care to get involved with Armenian issues. UN is not doing anything about the genocide that's going on in Darfur, you expect them to get involved when Turkey attacks Armenia? They will all sit back and watch!.......

The most important objective for US, Israel and Europe is stability in this region with its oil and gas routes (specifically the need for newer routes to feed the war in Afghanistan)……hence such a push to resolve the NKR issue and Turkey Armenia relations.

Turkey attacking Armenia (even say under the pretext that Armenia is harboring PKK terrorists) will face off with Russia like you said.

NATO can either support Turkey or condemn them. If they support then we will end up with Superpowers locking horns (very bad for the world)……..but if they condemn then it will become the biggest political and a military disaster in Turkey. Armenian and Russian forces will repel such aggression.
No, Turkey will do what it is told like a good puppet.

Armenian 'WEDGE' will hold…….China has nothing to worry about. hahaha