Political prisoners in Armenia

[KanadaHye]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Armenia has two political policies... kiss Russia's a$$ or kiss US's a$$. The oligarch's get their unfair advantage over the general Armenian popluation by doing one or the other. What reason does the US have to protect Armenia? If it weren't for the Armenian lobby in America, they wouldn't even think twice before giving the Azeri's the unbalanced military advantage.

Russia's influence and power from oil is mainly directed towards the European market. Naturally they don't want outsiders (UK and US) who support the Azeri's and the pipeline to dig into their profits. Who would profit from this pipeline going through Armenia anyways? That pipeline wouldn't last a month without getting blown up if it went through Armenia.

[UrMistake]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Armenia has two political policies... kiss Russia's a$$ or kiss US's a$$. The oligarch's get their unfair advantage over the general Armenian popluation by doing one or the other. What reason does the US have to protect Armenia? If it weren't for the Armenian lobby in America, they wouldn't even think twice before giving the Azeri's the unbalanced military advantage.

Russia's influence and power from oil is mainly directed towards the European market. Naturally they don't want outsiders (UK and US) who support the Azeri's and the pipeline to dig into their profits. Who would profit from this pipeline going through Armenia anyways? That pipeline wouldn't last a month without getting blown up if it went through Armenia.

Well why is always have some 1 kiss other ass?What that means?Before people start talking generally u have to see what policies has armenia adopted after the break of USSR,the goal were to assure a strong alliance with Russia,smart move for me,secondly Armenia views not so west only at Europe,
The question of NATO has been answered long ago,it will be beneficial the pipe go through armenia only reason azeris dont like it is cause we will have more cards to play in region,our voice will heard more loudly so it will be good to have it.
Russia is investor for Armenia they bring money that create jobs,Armenia works also with Iran.What other states of the region are doing?Georgia has Turkey for investor,Azeris are playing with oil the catch is that they prefer Russian for NABUCO even if they are member of GUAM.
If we take europe with our side make them to invest to us and not to azeris or georgians it will solid our sovereign in the region for good so no 1 will question us.

[Eddo211]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

The border is still open and Russian goods re arriving in Armenia don't worry about that, and I think the only reason there isn't a real blockade of Georgia is because of Armenia.

That was punishment for Armenia sending troops to Iraq.

..... And you know what got us killed is the way you are acting the people back than also thought they were better of without Russia and they would look to the West for help but did it ever came the help they were looking for?......

There lies the difference between us. You trust Russia and you hate the US. I on the hand have no hate for Russia but would never trust any of them.

I refuse to live a life a slave…………..I expect my Nation to hold those values Freedom as well.

Today Armenia is in a situation that can make some real changes if it could find a way to take advantage of the desperate situations that these two Superpowers find themselves locked in.

I

[Haykakan]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

That was punishment for Armenia sending troops to Iraq.



There lies the difference between us. You trust Russia and you hate the US. I on the hand have no hate for Russia but would never trust any of them.

I refuse to live a life a slave…………..I expect my Nation to hold those values Freedom as well.

Today Armenia is in a situation that can make some real changes if it could find a way to take advantage of the desperate situations that these two Superpowers find themselves locked in.

I

I am not as optimistic. I think the current situation of being loclked in a powerstruggle between great powers is a dangerous one for us and the possible risks far outweight any possible reward.The government of armenia is not powerfull it has to do what it is told by the big powers and if it doesn't it will be replaced by another government that will.As much i want armenia to de the master of its own destiny, the situation simply won't allow it.Armenia needs to survive and prosper and it needs to do it under the radar so the big powers wont try to stop it from growing cause if they think it is becoming too powerfull to controll, the minute they think that something bad will happen.I think it is amazing that it has held on to all of kharabagh for this long and managed to atleast somewhat prosper like it has.I understand why the government is hated by many but it does also deserve credit for the good things.It is not fair to blame it for all the bad things and not give it credit for any of the good.

[Mukuch]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

With what were they going to build the city, the first Armenian republic was a little more than a failed state. The people there were starving, a million refugees. And how many years till the Turk would have been back.

Well nether Russia nor turkey was in better conditions in that period of time and both countries have stood up on their feet and have developed (each in its way). And well if the Bolsheviks not invaded Armenia maybe Armenia would get a chans to develop as an INDEPENDENT country. And turks wouldn’t be back soon for sure they had other priorities, don’t forget that after eliminating Armenians, Armenia become one of the last issues for turks by its important.But this all just wild guesses, there is no way that Bolsheviks would let that happen.

Have you heard of a little thing called the treaty of Alexandropol. Armenia had lost the war and the Turks could invade any moment they wanted so please tell me again the Soviet was the evil you are telling.

Armenia had to fight on 2 fronts : Russian Bolsheviks and turks. The Alexandropol treaty was direct result of that. Kemal was getting arms from Russians. Now think yourself.

And from the first group you are talking abaut, how many got a good education? How many went to a uni? And when did those live at the end of the 80's than most people knew that the end was coming and breaking away from the party. And go and check how was a member of the Karabakh comity in the 80's. And guess who were the first ones to support the miatsum the soviet leadership of Armenia.
And do you think the Artsakh war could have been won without the officers and generals who had been part of the soviet military?

First for getting good education you did not have to be a party functionary.
I am talking about people who was becoming communist just to make a cariere. If one can become a communist for becoming a komsomol leader in his village, the same way he can become a Njdehakan for getting much higher positions. That is called hypocrisy and not having any ideological principles.Try to understand that. The same applies to the people who have thrown out their party member IDs when sow that the sheep is going down (reminds me rats).
And the officers who wan Karabakh war were first of all Armenians and Karabakhi Armenians like the ones who wan the World War II for russians. And you wouldn’t talk how "Great" soviet military was if you would be highding in Karabakhs forests from russian soldiers during "Koltso" operation. I do not know why everyone forgot about that one.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Well nether Russia nor turkey was in better conditions in that period of time and both countries have stood up on their feet and have developed (each in its way). And well if the Bolsheviks not invaded Armenia maybe Armenia would get a chans to develop as an INDEPENDENT country. And turks wouldn’t be back soon for sure they had other priorities, don’t forget that after eliminating Armenians, Armenia become one of the last issues for turks by its important.But this all just wild guesses, there is no way that Bolsheviks would let that happen.

Lets say the Bolsheviks didn't invade the Caucasus. Armenia is surrounded by enemies at every side this time. It's not like in the 90's every one is now our enemy you got the azeris, georgians, Iranians and Turks and even if we had won against the Turks their is a chance great chance the war would not have ended by that. And Turkey had just defeated the Allies and Greece and was coming for us. Turkey at that time was a rising Nationalistic state and
I'm not even sure we would have survived what they would have done too us. Armenia hadn't the resources to fight any war there was no trade and surrounded by hostile states filled with refugees that is the state we were in. And the SU was the lesser of the two evils coming our way.

Armenia had to fight on 2 fronts : Russian Bolsheviks and turks. The Alexandropol treaty was direct result of that. Kemal was getting arms from Russians. Now think yourself.

And you should think outside American propaganda and look at the things who they were. After initial success the Turks were winning and were as far as Gyumri occupying a lot of Armenian land, the only thing different would have been that our people would have fought much longer and after that conquered by the enemy because they lacked the manpower, infrastructure and resources their enemy had.

First for getting good education you did not have to be a party functionary.
I am talking about people who was becoming communist just to make a cariere. If one can become a communist for becoming a komsomol leader in his village, the same way he can become a Njdehakan for getting much higher positions. That is called hypocrisy and not having any ideological principles.Try to understand that. The same applies to the people who have thrown out their party member IDs when sow that the sheep is going down (reminds me rats).
And the officers who wan Karabakh war were first of all Armenians and Karabakhi Armenians like the ones who wan the World War II for russians. And you wouldn’t talk how "Great" soviet military was if you would be highding in Karabakhs forests from russian soldiers during "Koltso" operation. I do not know why everyone forgot about that one.

I think you don't know how the SU worked when you went to college you became automatically a party member almost 99.9% of the people of the Su were party members. If you wanted to work or travel you had to be a party member. All of the Fedayis were party members every one in Armenia born before 1980 was a party member. And 90% of them didn't believe in Communism. Like today in China every one is a member of the party. And nobody is forgetting anything but some people don't see things in perspective the only thing the SU cared about was about Su they didn't give a xxxx about the whole thing in Artsakh it was our struggle of course they were going to fight us what did you expect that they would have done something different. They were trying to preserve a dyeing Su.

[Mukuch]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

And you should think outside American propaganda and look at the things who they were.

Which part of what I wrote has anything to do with American propaganda? In contrary that decadent position of yours is a direct inspiration of soviet propaganda.

I think you don't know how the SU worked when you went to college you became automatically a party member almost 99.9% of the people of the Su were party members. If you wanted to work or travel you had to be a party member. All of the Fedayis were party members every one in Armenia born before 1980 was a party member. And 90% of them didn't believe in Communism. Like today in China every one is a member of the party. And nobody is forgetting anything but some people don't see things in perspective the only thing the SU cared about was about Su they didn't give a xxxx about the whole thing in Artsakh it was our struggle of course they were going to fight us what did you expect that they would have done something different. They were trying to preserve a dyeing Su.

Let me disagree with you. I know much more about SU than you think and probably than you know yourself

I went to college (University) even 2 of them in SU, and I wasn’t a party member. And no one who studied with me was a party member. Other thing that everyone had to be komsomol but I have been excluded from komsomol but managed to stay in university. And do not confuse being a regular Komsomol with PARTY FUNCTIONARIES. This people had no principles and yes they didn’t believe in anything and that is the worst part. They were just careerist hypocrites and serjik and robik and co. were some of them. And I think you are not very strong in the math. There were about 70.000 party members in Sovet Armenia with population of 3.000.000 dosent look like 99%. And that is bullxxxx that fidayis were communist. LOL. that one I know better than you.
You are right just in one thing Russians never give a xxxx about Karabakh and still do not give a xxxx. So how much you kiss their arss it doesn’t matter.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Which part of what I wrote has anything to do with American propaganda? In contrary that decadent position of yours is a direct inspiration of soviet propaganda.




Let me disagree with you. I know much more about SU than you think and probably than you know yourself

I went to college (University) even 2 of them in SU, and I wasn’t a party member. And no one who studied with me was a party member. Other thing that everyone had to be komsomol but I have been excluded from komsomol but managed to stay in university. And do not confuse being a regular Komsomol with PARTY FUNCTIONARIES. This people had no principles and yes they didn’t believe in anything and that is the worst part. They were just careerist hypocrites and serjik and robik and co. were some of them. And I think you are not very strong in the math. There were about 70.000 party members in Sovet Armenia with population of 3.000.000 dosent look like 99%. And that is bullxxxx that fidayis were communist. LOL. that one I know better than you.
You are right just in one thing Russians never give a xxxx about Karabakh and still do not give a xxxx. So how much you kiss their arss it doesn’t matter.

I got a question what does it matter what he did during the Soviet days if we start fiering every one who was a party member we will lose many people. Do you know something about Serj his history and the education he got. I've heard he went to study in Moscow and he's very close with Putin(their are college buddies or something) So he was being prepared to be an important man in the SU and he was doing what he could. And look at our generals and go read a little bit who they were, most of them were also officers during soviet times does it matter what they were during SU, and after the 70's there were not many people believe in the works of Marx and the SU was changing. So this idea that you have that it ws bad that he was an important man during the SU times and he can't be a president or he is a hypocrite because of that. I don't see any hypocrisy, do you have proof that he was a Communist it's not enough that he was a party member. Putin was also a party member will you call him also a hypocrite.

[Haykakan]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

Mukuch you keep implying that Armenia could have defended itself against the turcks if it was not for the soviets and this completly destroys any chance you ever had to make a believable argument. Armenia had no resources was completely outnumbered/outgunned/out everythinged and it was facing not the azeris of today but a huge power on the rise.To assume that if it not for the soviets, Armenia would have survived and prospered is complete ignorence and if the armenian leaders thought about things the way you do then there would not be a armenia today to speak of. It was exactly this kind of thought that lost us erzrum and kars. Just think about what you are saying, if armenia did not play ball with the soviets where was it going to get its weapons and suppies from? They had to come from somewhere, even the mythical yet powerfull army of your wet dreams had to still get weapons from somewhere and they were not going to come for free. You seem either unwilling or unable to make the distinction between how things are or where vs how you think they should have been or be. Yes russia does have its own national interests and they do not always coinside with armenias but to think that somehow armenia would have been better off without the russia/soviet union is simply bs anyway you want to look at it. Your iplication that everyone who was a cummunist was somehow evile is another issue which again is totally wrong and distorted in your mind. Most people in the soviet union had to be party members to advance in their careers and most of them were good people who were doing what was right in that society and taking care of their families. You have a deep rooted hatered to all things soviet including hayastantsis and this hate is based on complete misinformation and utter lies. I don't know who feeds you this misinformation or maybe you want to live in your own world which you see with fedai collored glasses. The bottom line is Armenia back then had no choice just like today it had to and still has to play ball with the big powers especialy russia to survive , it simply cant do it on its own in that part of the world. Evene the strongest most nationalistic groups of men ever created could not win a war without weapons and supplies. We are lucky as hell that russia has interests in that region, otherwise there would not have been a armenian state today. Neither armenia nor georgia would survive if it was not for russia and the caucuses would be overrun by turks with panturkism a reality. Russia is the only thing standing in the way of this and nothing and no one else.

[Mukuch]

Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

I got a question what does it matter what he did during the Soviet days if we start fiering every one who was a party member we will lose many people. Do you know something about Serj his history and the education he got. I've heard he went to study in Moscow and he's very close with Putin(their are college buddies or something) So he was being prepared to be an important man in the SU and he was doing what he could. And look at our generals and go read a little bit who they were, most of them were also officers during soviet times does it matter what they were during SU, and after the 70's there were not many people believe in the works of Marx and the SU was changing. So this idea that you have that it ws bad that he was an important man during the SU times and he can't be a president or he is a hypocrite because of that. I don't see any hypocrisy, do you have proof that he was a Communist it's not enough that he was a party member. Putin was also a party member will you call him also a hypocrite.

LOL
Of course Putin is a hypocrite, he was not just a party member he was a KGB general... LOL what can be a better characteristic for a hypocrite?
I do not care where serjik was studying, he was just another party functionary careerist, and I would prefer him to be a communist than nothing -what actually he is. Well I do not care about modern Armenian generals...I do not think any of them know how to read properly.. .
And I know enough about Armenian generals during WWII, they were talented as many armenians are but that has nothing to do with the subject. One thing is to be a general and other thing is to be a leader of nationalist party and head of the state