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Political prisoners in Armenia

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  • #61
    Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

    Haykakan: Did you know 90 percent of weapons used in Artsakh were taken from the Azeris? You guys need to read this………….the truth in my book.

    Why Armenia should be free:
    By HAIG HAROUTIUNIAN 1918


    ...........In 1914 both Turkey and Russia appealed to the Armenians by vari-
    ous promises of a future autonomous Armenia to secure their assistance
    in their respective military operations. Through their long and bitter
    experience the Armenians knew very well that the imperialistic govern-
    ments of both Turkey and of Russia were opposed to their national as-
    pirations and therefore those promises had no value whatever. But,
    realizing the universal significance of the present war, and considering
    the fact that justice was on the side of the Entente, the Armenians, in
    spite of their distrust of the Russian government, from the very begin-
    ning, unreservedly bound themselves to the allied cause.

    This decision of the Armenians cost them the sacrifice of more than
    1,000,000 men in Turkish Armenia, and complete devastation of their
    native land even in the first year of the war.

    In spite of this terrible blow, the Armenians did not lose their vigor,
    and, even though the autocratic Russian government, up to the time of
    the Revolution, created all sorts of obstacles to impede their activities,
    they still continued their assistance to the allied cause. In bringing about
    the failure of the three Turkish offensives in 1914 and 1915 the Arme-
    nians gave the allied cause important armed assistance, on both sides of
    the Turco-Russian frontier.

    After the Russian Revolution, when, the Russian military forces fled
    from the Caucasian front and left it unprotected from January, 1918,
    to the middle of the following September, the Armenians were the only
    people who resisted and delayed the Turco-German advance toward
    Baku. Moreover, the Armenians accomplished all this with their own
    forces, all alone, surrounded on all sides by hostile elements, without
    any means of communication with their great Allies of the West. As an
    evidence of this we may mention the fact that during the last eight




    CONCLUSION 43

    months and a half the Armenians have received from the Allies only
    6,500,000 rubles ($3,250,000) of financial assistance, and the 2,800
    British soldiers who were too few and arrived too late to save Baku.

    Let us now look at the other side of the picture.

    Had the Armenians assumed an entirely opposite attitude from what
    they actually did ; in other words, had they bound their fate in 1914 to
    the Turco-German cause, just as the Bulgarians did in 1915, what would
    have been the trend of events in the Near East ? Here is a question to
    which, it is quite possible, our great Allies have had no time to give any
    consideration. But that very question was put before the Armenians
    in 1914, and with no light heart did they answer it by their decision to
    join the Allies. Each and every one of them had a clear presentiment of
    the terrible responsibility they assumed. Those millions of corpses of
    Armenian women and children which spotted the plains in the summer
    of 1915, rose like phantoms before our very eyes in the August of 1914
    when we decided to resist the wild Turkish revengefulness and its
    frightful outcome. Now, in October, 1918, when we are so close to
    the hour of the final victory, and feel quite safe and certain that the
    heavy and gloomy days of the summer of 1914 will never return, I
    shall permit myself to picture in a few words, before I finish, that which
    would have taken place if the Armenians had sided with the Germano-
    Turks in the Near East from the beginning of the war.

    First of all, those frightful Armenian massacres would not have taken
    place. On the contrary, the Turks and the Germans would have tried
    to win the sympathy of the Armenians in every possible way until the
    end of the war.

    On the other hand, so long as the Georgians and Tartars of the
    Caucasian peoples were only too eager to co-operate with the Germano-
    Turks, as the events of 1918 fully demonstrate, had the Armenians like-
    wise joined them in 1914, by cutting the railroads, the backbone of the
    Caucasian Russian army, all the Caucasian country would have slipped
    out of the hands of the Russians in a few weeks, and the Turco-Ger-
    mans would have reached Baku in the autumn of the same year. The
    Armenians, Georgians, and Tartars of the Caucasus, united, would have
    been able to form with the greatest ease an army of 700,000 men, by
    which they would have been able to defend the Caucasian mountain-
    ridge against the Russians. Meanwhile, the entire Turkish army wonM



    44 WHY ARMENIA SHOULD BE FREE

    have been available to advance immediately toward the interior of Asia
    and join the 18,000,000 Moslems of Asiatic Russia. We may safely say,
    neither Persia nor Afghanistan could have remained neutral on seeing
    such successful achievements by the Turks.

    In the course of such events Russia would have been compelled to
    remove the greater portion of her forces to the East and would not
    have been able to protect her Western frontiers as successfully as she
    did. Therefore, quite probably, the Russian collapse would have taken
    place in the summer of 1915, when the Germans occupied Russian
    Poland. On the other hand, Great Britain would have been obliged to
    appropriate the greater portion of her newly-formed land forces for
    the protection of India, and would have been unable to rush as great a
    force to the defence of heroic France as she actually did. Quite likely,
    under these conditions, neither Italy nor Roumania would have aban-
    doned her neutrality, and thus the war might have ended in 1915 or
    1916 with the victory of the central Powers, at least on land.

    It was as clear as day to the Armenians that a Germane-Turkish vic-
    tory could never satisfy their national aspirations. The most that those
    nations would have done for us would have been to grant nominal rights
    to the Armenia of their own choice. But it was very plain to us also
    that we should not have suffered such frightful human losses had we not
    sided with the Allies. We consciously chose this last alternative,
    namely : we tied our fate to the allied victory ; we exposed our very exist-
    ence to danger in order to realize the complete fulfillment of our na-
    tional ambition, that is, to see the re-establishment of the United His-
    toric Independent Armenia.

    With our modest means, we have fulfilled our duty in full measure in
    this great struggle in order to save civilization from an impending
    doom. Now it is for our great Allies to act.

    The day is not very far distant when, gathered around the great
    tribunal of justice, the representatives of 2 11 the nations of the
    globe guilty or just are to receive their punishment or reward from
    the hands of the four distinguished champions of democracy, President
    Wilson, Premiers Lloyd George, Georges Clemenceau, and Orlando. If the
    representatives present themselves in the order of seniority, the first in
    the rank will be the representative of the Armenian people the aged
    lother Armenia. Behold! Into the Peace Congress Hall there enters



    CONCLUSION 45

    an old woman, bathed in blood, clothed in rags, her face covered with
    wrinkles 3,000 years old, and completely exhausted. With her thought-
    ful eyes the venerable Mother Armenia will survey the countenances of
    all those present, and thus will she address the great figures of the
    world :

    "Century after century my sons took part in all the strifes waged to
    safeguard justice and the freedom of suffering humanity. Three thou-
    sand years ago my sons struggled for seven hundred years against the
    despotism of Babylon and Nineveh, which eventually collapsed under the
    load of their own crimes. Fifteen centuries ago the Armenians resisted
    for five hundred years the persecutions of the mighty Persian Empire
    to preserve their Christian faith. Since the eighth century my sons
    have been the vanguard of Christian civilization in the East against
    Moslem invasions threatening for a while the very existence of all
    Europe. If you doubt my statements, ask the sacred mountain of
    Ararat; he will relate to you how all the nations and empires, which
    attempted to possess by criminal means the indisputable inheritance of
    my sons, have received their just punishment.

    "Let us not go very far. Here, before you, stand the representatives
    of those three nations which tried to destroy my sons before your very
    eyes, in order to rule those parts of our ancestral lands, so sanctified
    by blood, known as Armenia. Look at this Turk ; it was he who wished
    to wipe the very name of Armenia off the face of the map; but today,
    foiled in his attempt, he stands there like a criminal awaiting his sen-
    tence. And where is today the Czar of Russia, who planned to occupy
    Armenia without the Armenians, the representative of that Empire
    before which the world trembled. And what has remained of the policies
    of the German Empire, in whose hands is the Bagdad railroad now,
    built at the cost of the blood of hundreds of thousands of Armenian
    women and children? Thus, those three modern malevolent empires,
    which tried to attain happiness through the blood of my sons, have re-
    ceived their just punishment.

    "Such will be the fate in the future of all those who shall attempt
    similar crimes against Armenia. This is the message, gentlemen,
    handed down to us through three thousand years of history.

    "I have nothing more to add. I await your verdict with confidence/'

    B0zkurt Hunter

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

      Originally posted by Mukuch View Post
      LOL
      Of course Putin is a hypocrite, he was not just a party member he was a KGB general... LOL what can be a better characteristic for a hypocrite?
      I do not care where serjik was studying, he was just another party functionary careerist, and I would prefer him to be a communist than nothing -what actually he is. Well I do not care about modern Armenian generals...I do not think any of them know how to read properly.. .
      And I know enough about Armenian generals during WWII, they were talented as many armenians are but that has nothing to do with the subject. One thing is to be a general and other thing is to be a leader of nationalist party and head of the state
      The Soviet Union was gone what should they have done gone crying no they were the men who has that their countries needed them and they took the leadership in their hands that is what leaders have been doing through the ages. And what is the difference the generals were also members of the party weren't they aren't they also hypocrites. There were fedayis who were party members would you call them also hypocrites?

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

        Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
        Haykakan: Did you know 90 percent of weapons used in Artsakh were taken from the Azeris? You guys need to read this………….the truth in my book.

        Why Armenia should be free:
        By HAIG HAROUTIUNIAN 1918


        ...........In 1914 both Turkey and Russia appealed to the Armenians by vari-
        ous promises of a future autonomous Armenia to secure their assistance
        in their respective military operations. Through their long and bitter
        experience the Armenians knew very well that the imperialistic govern-
        ments of both Turkey and of Russia were opposed to their national as-
        pirations and therefore those promises had no value whatever. But,
        realizing the universal significance of the present war, and considering
        the fact that justice was on the side of the Entente, the Armenians, in
        spite of their distrust of the Russian government, from the very begin-
        ning, unreservedly bound themselves to the allied cause.

        This decision of the Armenians cost them the sacrifice of more than
        1,000,000 men in Turkish Armenia, and complete devastation of their
        native land even in the first year of the war.

        In spite of this terrible blow, the Armenians did not lose their vigor,
        and, even though the autocratic Russian government, up to the time of
        the Revolution, created all sorts of obstacles to impede their activities,
        they still continued their assistance to the allied cause. In bringing about
        the failure of the three Turkish offensives in 1914 and 1915 the Arme-
        nians gave the allied cause important armed assistance, on both sides of
        the Turco-Russian frontier.

        After the Russian Revolution, when, the Russian military forces fled
        from the Caucasian front and left it unprotected from January, 1918,
        to the middle of the following September, the Armenians were the only
        people who resisted and delayed the Turco-German advance toward
        Baku. Moreover, the Armenians accomplished all this with their own
        forces, all alone, surrounded on all sides by hostile elements, without
        any means of communication with their great Allies of the West. As an
        evidence of this we may mention the fact that during the last eight




        CONCLUSION 43

        months and a half the Armenians have received from the Allies only
        6,500,000 rubles ($3,250,000) of financial assistance, and the 2,800
        British soldiers who were too few and arrived too late to save Baku.

        Let us now look at the other side of the picture.

        Had the Armenians assumed an entirely opposite attitude from what
        they actually did ; in other words, had they bound their fate in 1914 to
        the Turco-German cause, just as the Bulgarians did in 1915, what would
        have been the trend of events in the Near East ? Here is a question to
        which, it is quite possible, our great Allies have had no time to give any
        consideration. But that very question was put before the Armenians
        in 1914, and with no light heart did they answer it by their decision to
        join the Allies. Each and every one of them had a clear presentiment of
        the terrible responsibility they assumed. Those millions of corpses of
        Armenian women and children which spotted the plains in the summer
        of 1915, rose like phantoms before our very eyes in the August of 1914
        when we decided to resist the wild Turkish revengefulness and its
        frightful outcome. Now, in October, 1918, when we are so close to
        the hour of the final victory, and feel quite safe and certain that the
        heavy and gloomy days of the summer of 1914 will never return, I
        shall permit myself to picture in a few words, before I finish, that which
        would have taken place if the Armenians had sided with the Germano-
        Turks in the Near East from the beginning of the war.

        First of all, those frightful Armenian massacres would not have taken
        place. On the contrary, the Turks and the Germans would have tried
        to win the sympathy of the Armenians in every possible way until the
        end of the war.

        On the other hand, so long as the Georgians and Tartars of the
        Caucasian peoples were only too eager to co-operate with the Germano-
        Turks, as the events of 1918 fully demonstrate, had the Armenians like-
        wise joined them in 1914, by cutting the railroads, the backbone of the
        Caucasian Russian army, all the Caucasian country would have slipped
        out of the hands of the Russians in a few weeks, and the Turco-Ger-
        mans would have reached Baku in the autumn of the same year. The
        Armenians, Georgians, and Tartars of the Caucasus, united, would have
        been able to form with the greatest ease an army of 700,000 men, by
        which they would have been able to defend the Caucasian mountain-
        ridge against the Russians. Meanwhile, the entire Turkish army wonM



        44 WHY ARMENIA SHOULD BE FREE

        have been available to advance immediately toward the interior of Asia
        and join the 18,000,000 Moslems of Asiatic Russia. We may safely say,
        neither Persia nor Afghanistan could have remained neutral on seeing
        such successful achievements by the Turks.

        In the course of such events Russia would have been compelled to
        remove the greater portion of her forces to the East and would not
        have been able to protect her Western frontiers as successfully as she
        did. Therefore, quite probably, the Russian collapse would have taken
        place in the summer of 1915, when the Germans occupied Russian
        Poland. On the other hand, Great Britain would have been obliged to
        appropriate the greater portion of her newly-formed land forces for
        the protection of India, and would have been unable to rush as great a
        force to the defence of heroic France as she actually did. Quite likely,
        under these conditions, neither Italy nor Roumania would have aban-
        doned her neutrality, and thus the war might have ended in 1915 or
        1916 with the victory of the central Powers, at least on land.

        It was as clear as day to the Armenians that a Germane-Turkish vic-
        tory could never satisfy their national aspirations. The most that those
        nations would have done for us would have been to grant nominal rights
        to the Armenia of their own choice. But it was very plain to us also
        that we should not have suffered such frightful human losses had we not
        sided with the Allies. We consciously chose this last alternative,
        namely : we tied our fate to the allied victory ; we exposed our very exist-
        ence to danger in order to realize the complete fulfillment of our na-
        tional ambition, that is, to see the re-establishment of the United His-
        toric Independent Armenia.

        With our modest means, we have fulfilled our duty in full measure in
        this great struggle in order to save civilization from an impending
        doom. Now it is for our great Allies to act.

        The day is not very far distant when, gathered around the great
        tribunal of justice, the representatives of 2 11 the nations of the
        globe guilty or just are to receive their punishment or reward from
        the hands of the four distinguished champions of democracy, President
        Wilson, Premiers Lloyd George, Georges Clemenceau, and Orlando. If the
        representatives present themselves in the order of seniority, the first in
        the rank will be the representative of the Armenian people the aged
        lother Armenia. Behold! Into the Peace Congress Hall there enters



        CONCLUSION 45

        an old woman, bathed in blood, clothed in rags, her face covered with
        wrinkles 3,000 years old, and completely exhausted. With her thought-
        ful eyes the venerable Mother Armenia will survey the countenances of
        all those present, and thus will she address the great figures of the
        world :

        "Century after century my sons took part in all the strifes waged to
        safeguard justice and the freedom of suffering humanity. Three thou-
        sand years ago my sons struggled for seven hundred years against the
        despotism of Babylon and Nineveh, which eventually collapsed under the
        load of their own crimes. Fifteen centuries ago the Armenians resisted
        for five hundred years the persecutions of the mighty Persian Empire
        to preserve their Christian faith. Since the eighth century my sons
        have been the vanguard of Christian civilization in the East against
        Moslem invasions threatening for a while the very existence of all
        Europe. If you doubt my statements, ask the sacred mountain of
        Ararat; he will relate to you how all the nations and empires, which
        attempted to possess by criminal means the indisputable inheritance of
        my sons, have received their just punishment.

        "Let us not go very far. Here, before you, stand the representatives
        of those three nations which tried to destroy my sons before your very
        eyes, in order to rule those parts of our ancestral lands, so sanctified
        by blood, known as Armenia. Look at this Turk ; it was he who wished
        to wipe the very name of Armenia off the face of the map; but today,
        foiled in his attempt, he stands there like a criminal awaiting his sen-
        tence. And where is today the Czar of Russia, who planned to occupy
        Armenia without the Armenians, the representative of that Empire
        before which the world trembled. And what has remained of the policies
        of the German Empire, in whose hands is the Bagdad railroad now,
        built at the cost of the blood of hundreds of thousands of Armenian
        women and children? Thus, those three modern malevolent empires,
        which tried to attain happiness through the blood of my sons, have re-
        ceived their just punishment.

        "Such will be the fate in the future of all those who shall attempt
        similar crimes against Armenia. This is the message, gentlemen,
        handed down to us through three thousand years of history.

        "I have nothing more to add. I await your verdict with confidence/'

        http://www.archive.org/stream/whyarm...duoft_djvu.txt
        Eddo jan you are proving my point even further. $3,250,000 was a lot of money back then, Armenia could not have fought off the turcks on its own. Whatever help the west gave russia gave way more even when it was not fighting.
        Hayastan or Bust.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

          Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
          Eddo jan you are proving my point even further. $3,250,000 was a lot of money back then, Armenia could not have fought off the turcks on its own. Whatever help the west gave russia gave way more even when it was not fighting.
          We didn’t need their money only……………..what we needed was for them not to backstab us. What we needed was to allow General Andranik to take Baku as he was about to do. What we needed was for them to send their Armenian regiment to join their brothers instead of dying fighting Germans when we asked them. What we needed later was for Stalin not to give away our historic lands to please Ataturk. Least they could have done is fulfill their empty promises for us saving their butts with Armenian blood.

          Anyway, I know what you are saying also Haykakan and I understand you my friend. We need to worry about today and Russia is a stratigical ally with great influence inside Armenia, no denying of fact there (is this good? I don’t think so)………………..but never would I as an Armenian trust them or any other country ever again. Work and deal with them? Yes, trust? No way.
          Last edited by Eddo211; 06-25-2009, 08:54 AM.
          B0zkurt Hunter

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

            Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
            We didn’t need their money only……………..what we needed was for them not to backstab us. What we needed was to allow General Andranik to take Baku as he was about to do. What we needed was for them to send their Armenian regiment to join their brothers instead of dying fighting Germans when we asked them. What we needed later was for Stalin not to give away our historic lands to please Ataturk. Least they could have done is fulfill their empty promises for us saving their butts with Armenian blood.

            Anyway, I know what you are saying also Haykakan and I understand you my friend. We need to worry about today and Russia is a stratigical ally with great influence inside Armenia, no denying of fact there (is this good? I don’t think so)………………..but never would I as an Armenian thrust them or any other country ever again. Work and deal with them? Yes, thrust? No way.
            I agree with you about trusting. In the real world you cannot really trust anybody other then yourself to look after your interests. And i am happy that you agree with the fact that we need to be close to russia to survive.The sad truth is armenia has little choice, it may not trust russia 100%, and it shouldnt, but in reality it cannot run its economy or foreighn policy independant of it. This may sound like a bad thing but in this case it is not because the more interests the russians have in Armenia(business, strategic) the more likely their national strategy will be inline with our own.As far as history is concerned, stalin definetly backstabbed us and i think we need to keep an eye on shakasville to in this regard, but saying armenia was going to beat turckey if the russians did't interfere is simply wrong.
            Hayastan or Bust.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

              Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
              Eddo jan you are proving my point even further. $3,250,000 was a lot of money back then, Armenia could not have fought off the turcks on its own. Whatever help the west gave russia gave way more even when it was not fighting.
              Exactly, after the Russian Army was practically disbanded following the Russian Revolution, Russia still left stockpiles of weapons and provisions that could've lasted over an entire year if we defended Erzerum in early 1918, and highly qualified generals like Nazarbekian to lead the Armenians to victory. But what did we do? We (our Russian Armenians at the time) ran away from battle because wars in Turkey "were not the problem of Russian Armenians, but of Turkish Armenians" (of whom most of the heros were martyred long ago and its population, mostly reduced to refugee status, was perhaps 1/4 at best of the pre-1915 figure).

              In terms of material support, Russia gave Armenia a golden chance to crush the beaten down, shaggy clothed and famished Turkish Army of 1918. But we, confusedly ran away, when we outnumbered and outgunned them, and let a measly 4000 Turkish soldiers take Erzerum without a fight, shattering 30 years of the Armenian Revolutionary Movement's dream and legacy of an independant Western Armenia, capable of defending itself and consequently, defending Caucasian Armenia by mere virtue of existing.

              Who is to blame for this loss? Foreign powers? Russian Armenians only woke up when the same humiliating loss of Erzerum without a fight, occurred weeks later in exactly the same way with Kars.
              Last edited by jgk3; 06-25-2009, 11:05 AM.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

                Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
                Mukuch you keep implying that Armenia could have defended itself against the turcks if it was not for the soviets and this completly destroys any chance you ever had to make a believable argument. Armenia had no resources was completely outnumbered/outgunned/out everythinged and it was facing not the azeris of today but a huge power on the rise.To assume that if it not for the soviets, Armenia would have survived and prospered is complete ignorence and if the armenian leaders thought about things the way you do then there would not be a armenia today to speak of. It was exactly this kind of thought that lost us erzrum and kars. Just think about what you are saying, if armenia did not play ball with the soviets where was it going to get its weapons and suppies from? They had to come from somewhere, even the mythical yet powerfull army of your wet dreams had to still get weapons from somewhere and they were not going to come for free. You seem either unwilling or unable to make the distinction between how things are or where vs how you think they should have been or be. Yes russia does have its own national interests and they do not always coinside with armenias but to think that somehow armenia would have been better off without the russia/soviet union is simply bs anyway you want to look at it. Your iplication that everyone who was a cummunist was somehow evile is another issue which again is totally wrong and distorted in your mind. Most people in the soviet union had to be party members to advance in their careers and most of them were good people who were doing what was right in that society and taking care of their families. You have a deep rooted hatered to all things soviet including hayastantsis and this hate is based on complete misinformation and utter lies. I don't know who feeds you this misinformation or maybe you want to live in your own world which you see with fedai collored glasses. The bottom line is Armenia back then had no choice just like today it had to and still has to play ball with the big powers especialy russia to survive , it simply cant do it on its own in that part of the world. Evene the strongest most nationalistic groups of men ever created could not win a war without weapons and supplies. We are lucky as hell that russia has interests in that region, otherwise there would not have been a armenian state today. Neither armenia nor georgia would survive if it was not for russia and the caucuses would be overrun by turks with panturkism a reality. Russia is the only thing standing in the way of this and nothing and no one else.
                You obviously need to learn to read...knowing how to write is not always enough... I think I have answered to everything her in other posts and to lathy to do it again....

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

                  Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post
                  The Soviet Union was gone what should they have done gone crying no they were the men who has that their countries needed them and they took the leadership in their hands that is what leaders have been doing through the ages. And what is the difference the generals were also members of the party weren't they aren't they also hypocrites. There were fedayis who were party members would you call them also hypocrites?
                  You still do not understand my point and probably never will.... The people whos only goal is carrier and power, the people who have no ideas and no ideals, for who doesn’t matter be communist or njdehakan or whatever, they cannot serve to nation or to any other idea. They always will serve just to themselves. That is actually what is going on now in Armenia and I blame for that people who thinks like you . I understand that that is to complicated for you to understand but well; I have tried....
                  Last edited by Mukuch; 06-26-2009, 01:57 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

                    Originally posted by Mukuch View Post
                    You still do not understand my point and probably never will.... The people whos only goal is carrier and power, the people who have no ideas and no ideals, for who doesn’t matter be communist or njdehakan or whatever, they cannot serve to nation or to any other idea. They always will serve just to themselves. That is actually what is going on now in Armenia and I blame for that people who thinks like you . I understand that that is to complicated for you to understand but well; I have tried....
                    Only mukuch can understand mukuch and everyone else is way too dumb, unpatriotic, career oriented......I bet you have a hell of a social life.
                    Hayastan or Bust.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Political prisoners in Armenia

                      Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
                      Only mukuch can understand mukuch and everyone else is way too dumb, unpatriotic, career oriented......I bet you have a hell of a social life.
                      LOL
                      Speak for yourself: if you are so dumb doesn’t mean everyone else is. I do not know where have you come from to such a conclusion but my social life is not your xxxxen business, tack care of yours and stick to subject.

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