Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

[Nanoushka]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

let's just say, they want only what's best for themselves by being selfish!

[Armanen]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

let's just say, they want only what's best for themselves by being selfish!

I'm sorry but that does not cut it. There is a lot more involved here than what these tools want on a personal level.

[Nanoushka]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

I know that it's much more complicated than that, I just gave out a very general fact about countries think of what's best for themselves before others.

[Anoush]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

So far the people holding the 'there is no other way' attitude as you claim, have brought up better arguments as to why this whole thing was started and what it aims to achieve than the hysteria many in the anti-protocol camp have.

Maybe the reason the Diaspora is more angry with the protocols than the citizens of Armenia, is because too many in the Diaspora see the Genocide and its recognition as a pillar of their Armenianess, so to speak. It is part of the victimhood mentality that we must get rid of as Armenians, if we want to move in a positive direction. turkey will not be punished by words but by deeds
Also, I don't think those in Armenia care less about this issue, it's just that it is easier to complain about things and point out its flaws when you will not be the one facing the consequences.

Yes we should give in to the pre-conditions of the protocols because the Big Bear our Russian friends and the corrupted US's Obama wants it for their gas pipes and the dispersement and the disappearance of Armenia; because that's what we the hysterics see in the foreseeable future and have been against the deadly protocols from the ghetgo. The Genocide recognition and it's veracity is submerged into oblivion so is our reparations and rights of our historical Armenian lands -thanks to the protocols that were signed on Oct. 10- as well as the economical benefits that some of you think that Armenia will benefit, it is merely for Armenia's government, their officials and the oligarchs. The cheap turkish goods will overpower our Republic and the 90 percent of the population in the homeland will eventually go bankrupt and have to go to greener pastures -the US, Russia, Europe, Middle East, etc.-. That's why some of us are angry and appaled by the protocols, Serge and his deceitful loser ways against the immoral superpowers of US, Russia and Europe.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Yes we should give in to the pre-conditions of the protocols because the Big Bear our Russian friends and the corrupted US's Obama wants it for their gas pipes and the dispersement and the disappearance of Armenia; because that's what we the hysterics see in the foreseeable future and have been against the deadly protocols from the ghetgo. The Genocide recognition and it's veracity is submerged into oblivion so is our reparations and rights of our historical Armenian lands -thanks to the protocols that were signed on Oct. 10- as well as the economical benefits that some of you think that Armenia will benefit, it is merely for Armenia's government, their officials and the oligarchs. The cheap turkish goods will overpower our Republic and the 90 percent of the population in the homeland will eventually go bankrupt and have to go to greener pastures -the US, Russia, Europe, Middle East, etc.-. That's why some of us are angry and appaled by the protocols, Serge and his deceitful loser ways against the immoral superpowers of US, Russia and Europe.

Where were you 10 years ago when your country needed economical help, why weren't you in Armenia investing in the country? Why aren't you now there and talking what the people there should do. Most people of the diaspora have treated Armenia as a place for their vacation and didn't care much about it. Where were all those people protesting today 10 years ago when they could invest in their country?

Most in the Diaspora don't really care for Armenia, they give a couple of bucks and thinks that is enough. If they cared Armenia wouldn't have been in the state it's today. So don't come crying now when the great powers have decided it's time to change the region.

PS genocide recognition will still go on nothing will stop it. No one is going to give away Artaskh. And Armenia is safe till Russia is weak and doesn't have the power to come to our defense when we need them.

[Anoush]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Where were you 10 years ago when your country needed economical help, why weren't you in Armenia investing in the country? Why aren't you now there and talking what the people there should do. Most people of the diaspora have treated Armenia as a place for their vacation and didn't care much about it. Where were all those people protesting today 10 years ago when they could invest in their country?

Most in the Diaspora don't really care for Armenia, they give a couple of bucks and thinks that is enough. If they cared Armenia wouldn't have been in the state it's today. So don't come crying now when the great powers have decided it's time to change the region.

PS genocide recognition will still go on nothing will stop it. No one is going to give away Artaskh. And Armenia is safe till Russia is weak and doesn't have the power to come to our defense when we need them.

Don't be an idiot and speak stupidity. And you can go and attack to the millions of the Diasporans who find the protocols that were signed deadly for our cause on three accounts; because they were not repatriated to Armenia a decade ago. Yes I am appaled and mistrust Serge's government because they acted like losers instead of acting like they were the heads of a country not just living as the slaves of the denialist state of turkey. And why was it that the corrupted government of Armenia wasn't much less corrupted and didn't gulped the monies that so many wealthy diasporans tried time and time again to invest in the country? Instead they were taken advantage or I should say taken to the laundry with their monies and their time that they have invested with open arms and open hearts? If these mistrusting actions thanks to the Armenia's corrupted government of the past and of present did not happen, then at least more of the Diasporans would have repatriated and invested in their state without being, swindled, and basically taken to the laundromat.

Furthermore, most people in Armenia that have no jobs or interest in today's deceitful government are against the protocols and some are even against the opening of the borders, even though it was turkey who closed the borders for 16 years.

You think Genocide recognition will still go on; but don't you know how to read? The government of RA already signed away our rights to reparations by acknowledging turkey's borders. turkey is in a win win stand against our Republic and go and read it's written somewhere in here numerous time, there's a clause in the protocols that we may even give away Artsakh, yes unfortunately there is no guarantee the way it's stipulated. Go and read it again.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Thanks for being blunt and to the point Anoush

ARAM KARAPTIAN: "PROTOCOLS ARE CHANGED"

Leader of the New Times Party (NZhK) Aram Karapetian says the texts of the Armenian-Turkish Protocols were changed before the signing in Zurich on October 10. "The replacement of each word and phrase may change the contents of the Protocols," Arman Karapetian told A1+. The NZhK Leader has found serious and dangerous changes in the texts of the Protocols posted on the website of the RA Foreign Ministry. "One of the changes concerns diplomatic relations under which Turkey is empowered to enter Armenia and take military action in order to protect its citizens' rights." Regarding ARF-Dashnaktsutiun's protests against the Armenian-Turkish Protocols, Mr. Karapetian said: "Unlike the ARF-Dashnaktsutiun I have always said that the burden of the Protocols lies on Serzh Sargsyan. The ratification of the Protocols cannot be hindered unless Serzh Sargsyan resigns office. ARF-Dashnaktsutiun will gain nothing with the calls for Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian's resignation ARF-Dashnaktsutiun needn't suffice with taking oppositionist's posture. They had better act and I am hopeful that the Party wants to see the disgraceful Protocols rescinded. Aram Karapetian will continue cooperation with ARF-Dashnaktsutiun and Armenian National Congress (HAK). He says it is high time the HAK spoke up and took measures.

http://www.armtown.com/news/en/a1p/20091019/200910196

ANKARA ATTEMPTS TO START PROTOCOL RATIFICATION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

“Official Ankara is very probably tying to start protocol ratification as soon as possible. In the meantime, it’s going to make abrupt and unambiguous statements on both Armenia and international community with a demand of speeding up Karabakh peace process,” Head of National Neo-Conservative Movement Edward Abrahamyan told a PanARMENIAN.Net reporter. He said it was a specific kind of trap for Armenia and Turkey, with both Moscow and Washington being stakeholders. Armenian leadership has already made the first mistake, however, it is required to demonstrate vigilance to avoid hasty steps posing hazard to the country. “It is necessary to take some drastic steps towards Karabakh issue to prove to Turkey the non-constructiveness of its position. With its unexpected steps towards Karabakh issue, Armenia should make Turkey realize that situation in Karabakh depends on Yerevan, and hence the issue should be resolved by Yerevan without any influence or pressure from without. After signing of Protocols, Armenia should not tolerate Turkish senior officials’ open pro-Azerbaijani statements concerning Karabakh. If Turkey continues acting as a ‘mediator’ in Karabakh issue, Armenia will have to resort to international human rights organizations, with a demand of Turkey’s providing compensation for economic, political, social and demographic damage caused to Armenia during the blockade,” neo-conservative leader stressed.

http://www.armtown.com/news/en/pan/20091020/38114/

[Nanoushka]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

I couldn't have had said it better Anoush! The protocols, after attending the lectures that were done by scholars, have to be read between the lines and not word by word! That's the reason why we are angry about not because of the opening the borders.

[Armanen]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Yes we should give in to the pre-conditions of the protocols because the Big Bear our Russian friends and the corrupted US's Obama wants it for their gas pipes and the dispersement and the disappearance of Armenia; because that's what we the hysterics see in the foreseeable future and have been against the deadly protocols from the ghetgo. The Genocide recognition and it's veracity is submerged into oblivion so is our reparations and rights of our historical Armenian lands -thanks to the protocols that were signed on Oct. 10- as well as the economical benefits that some of you think that Armenia will benefit, it is merely for Armenia's government, their officials and the oligarchs. The cheap turkish goods will overpower our Republic and the 90 percent of the population in the homeland will eventually go bankrupt and have to go to greener pastures -the US, Russia, Europe, Middle East, etc.-. That's why some of us are angry and appaled by the protocols, Serge and his deceitful loser ways against the immoral superpowers of US, Russia and Europe.

A lot of emotion with no substance to the claims. Accusations should be proven.

[Armanen]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

The first article KanadaHye posted sounds like bs. Neither Armenia nor Russia would allow turkish troops to enter Armenia under any pretenses, that is just absurd. I see some folks are trying to come up with new angles to attack the protocols since most of what they have been saying is unsubstantiated.

As for the second article, I find the last part ironic: "Armenia will have to resort to international human rights organizations, with a demand of Turkey’s providing compensation for economic, political, social and demographic damage caused to Armenia during the blockade,” neo-conservative leader stressed."

Why didn't all the people upset about the protocols urge the government of Armenia to do this years ago. Why wasn't this path pursued 2, 5 or 10 years ago? I have my own opinions but lets first see what you all have to say, especially those who are against the protocols.