Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

[Armanen]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Armanen, Ara Papian, the Armenian ambassador to Canada had put together the whole package of how the Republic of Armenia can and should pursue the Treaty of Sevres and more importantly the Arbitrary Award of President Woodrow Wilson. He put the protocols on the table of the former president Robert Kocharyan.

Two weeks later he was fired from his post as RA ambassador without any explanation.

Please read here -

http://www.wilsonforarmenia.org/Report.htm

This is what I meant. Why was the Diaspora not outraged over this? Instead they saved their rage for when Amb. Evans was fired.

[Catharsis]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

This is what I meant. Why was the Diaspora not outraged over this? Instead they saved their rage for when Amb. Evans was fired.

Yes, because unfortunately Diaspora is fragmented along various lines and does not have a single body (All-Armenian National Council) that can represent it. We need to restore the National Council like we use to have at the beginning of the 20th century where all segments of Diaspora have a say and also their appropriate representation in the Homeland.

[Catharsis]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Armenians have almost always been outnumbered and constantly at war for thousends of years, those who study demographics would tell you that Armenians should not exist at all today but there they are. I have urged you to look at previous writings many times but you dont and then use it as a excuse. Despite all rhetoric alieve is not interested in kharabagh nearly as much as he is interested in selling his oil. The latest developments put pressure on the azeris to compromise on kharabagh so that the issue will be settled and oil can flow through armenia to turckey and the west. Aliev's rhetoric is aimed at his domestic audience kinda like a colorful male bird doing his xxxxy dance to attract the female. There is pressure by the usa, russia and now turckey on azeris to make a deal on kharabagh. I have been saying that should the protocals be ratified and the borders opened then the kharabagh issue will quickly also be solved. This is all part of a big plan for the region drawn up by the big powers and is intended to benefit everyone involved especialy Armenia.

You are basically stipulating a "diplomatic resolution" to the stalemate. What the non-Armenians are pushing for. Ilham Aliev made it clear that he wants all of the liberated territories outside of "NK" and giving "NK" (using their parlance) "wide autonomy." From what I gather, you are fine with this model and are willing to trade Armenian land for very questionable economic gain. It is this kind of "everything for sale" mentality that has gotten us to here in the first place. For someone who speaks so much about survival you should know that we endured because we fought and not because we gave in.

Armenian land is not for sale. No "international pressure" will change the fact that Azeri Turks not only want Artsakh but also Syunik if they cannot abolish the Armenian Republic altogether. This is their ultimate goal of getting rid of what is left of Armenia as their motto is two countries one people, your pragmatism simply does not correspond to the anti-Armenian policies (and not empty words) pursued by both Turkey and Azerbaijan.

[Eddo211]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Yes, because unfortunately Diaspora is fragmented along various lines and does not have a single body (All-Armenian National Council) that can represent it. We need to restore the National Council like we use to have at the beginning of the 20th century where all segments of Diaspora have a say and also their appropriate representation in the Homeland.

Well said Catharsis, well said.

[Anoush]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Also just because we are in the Diaspora does not mean that we didn't send monies to Armenia, supported her, cared for, and thought and think about Armenia every day of our lives. I personally did all that and continue to do so until the end of my life, then someone very young who does not know me such as Karothgreat recently said to me where was I 10 years ago? Where was I? When I was pregnant for my daughter is the time that I heard about Diasporans going to Artsakh to fight for Artsakh's liberation and I was upset, happy that I was pregnant but I too wished to go to Artsakh to fight for her; but I couldn't at the time because I was pregnant with a child, otherwise I wanted to go and fight for her too. I have personally supported two children who's fathers were left orphan from the Artsakh war until they turned 18 and I have sent with people that I trusted monies to Armenia from here the Diaspora. So people do not talk about all Diasporans being callous, non patriotic enough or of simply outsiders who are criticizing suddenly when things are going wrong in our homeland. People like myself and others who have done even more than I care for Armenia and we cry and laugh with Armenia and for Armenia every day of our lives.

My husband just recently told me before the protocols, that heroes go and fight for their country, only for later beaurocrats like Serge and Nalbandyan to sit in their offices and negotiate and give it away the very lands that those superheroes gave their sweet and healthy lives for it to regain their historical lands. Boy was he right.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Also just because we are in the Diaspora does not mean that we didn't send monies to Armenia, supported her, cared for, and thought and think about Armenia every day of our lives. I personally did all that and continue to do so until the end of my life, then someone very young who does not know me such as Karothgreat recently said to me where was I 10 years ago? Where was I? When I was pregnant for my daughter is the time that I heard about Diasporans going to Artsakh to fight for Artsakh's liberation and I was upset, happy that I was pregnant but I too wished to go to Artsakh to fight for her; but I couldn't at the time because I was pregnant with a child, otherwise I wanted to go and fight for her too. I have personally supported two children who's fathers were left orphan from the Artsakh war until they turned 18 and I have sent with people that I trusted monies to Armenia from here the Diaspora. So people do not talk about all Diasporans being callous, non patriotic enough or of simply outsiders who are criticizing suddenly when things are going wrong in our homeland. People like myself and others who have done even more than I care for Armenia and we cry and laugh with Armenia and for Armenia every day of our lives.

My husband just recently told me before the protocols, that heroes go and fight for their country, only for later beaurocrats like Serge and Nalbandyan to sit in their offices and negotiate and give it away the very lands that those superheroes gave their sweet and healthy lives for it to regain their historical lands. Boy was he right.

I wasn't talking about Artsakh and you know it. I'm talking about the fact that 90% of the diaspora has done nothing for Armenia economically. You've given money to charity that is it. Have you gone there and really invested in the country or has any one else from the Diaspora. Most people haven't and now they are awake and talk about people being traitors without knowing what is going on in Hayastan.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

I wasn't talking about Artsakh and you know it. I'm talking about the fact that 90% of the diaspora has done nothing for Armenia economically. You've given money to charity that is it. Have you gone there and really invested in the country or has any one else from the Diaspora. Most people haven't and now they are awake and talk about people being traitors without knowing what is going on in Hayastan.

Let's see... do the people of Armenia benefit when someone spends $1500 on air fare to visit? A country can't thrive on tourism alone, it only employs a fraction of the population. Anyone that has invested in Armenia had been taken to the cleaners by the mafia. The only useful charity I found reliable was for an orphange set up by the Cultural Society of Armenians from Istanbul. Children are the future, the mafia doesn't need any of our hard earned money.

[Haykakan]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Let's see... do the people of Armenia benefit when someone spends $1500 on air fare to visit? A country can't thrive on tourism alone, it only employs a fraction of the population. Anyone that has invested in Armenia had been taken to the cleaners by the mafia. The only useful charity I found reliable was for an orphange set up by the Cultural Society of Armenians from Istanbul. Children are the future, the mafia doesn't need any of our hard earned money.

Non of what you say here is true. Plenty of countries thrive on tourism-so can Armenia. We dont have a ocean but we have everything else. Plenty of people who invested in Armenia did very well including my brother. There are plenty reliable charities that do great work there. If people think like your describing there wont be any childeren to make our future.

[Armanen]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Let's see... do the people of Armenia benefit when someone spends $1500 on air fare to visit? A country can't thrive on tourism alone, it only employs a fraction of the population. Anyone that has invested in Armenia had been taken to the cleaners by the mafia. The only useful charity I found reliable was for an orphange set up by the Cultural Society of Armenians from Istanbul. Children are the future, the mafia doesn't need any of our hard earned money.

Actually, this is not accurate. It is very easy to do business in Armenia, and one can take 100% of the profits back to whatever country he is from, although in our case I hope we would reinvest it in Armenia. The only issue is that sometimes you may need to bribe certain people and this is becoming less with each passing year.

Anyway, there are a number of well known Diasporan Armenians from Russia, Iran, U.S. and Latin America who are doing just fine with their investments and assets in Armenia.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Obama and the normalization of Armenia's relations with Turkey

Actually, this is not accurate. It is very easy to do business in Armenia, and one can take 100% of the profits back to whatever country he is from, although in our case I hope we would reinvest it in Armenia. The only issue is that sometimes you may need to bribe certain people and this is becoming less with each passing year.

Anyway, there are a number of well known Diasporan Armenians from Russia, Iran, U.S. and Latin America who are doing just fine with their investments and assets in Armenia.

That's what I'm talking about, people going there making money and then reinvesting it in the country. Not going there for 14 days getting wasted for 13 days and spending 2000 bucks at the expensive bars. But really investing it in the economy so that it can grow.

Armenia can not grow without external investments if the diaspora isn't going to do it the Turks will, the Russians will and the Iranians will. So if you care about your country start investing in it and taking over our businesses.