Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

[Mos]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

Yeah, it has bearing on her death, I don't know how else to respond to your post? What do you want me to explain? Do you think its normal for a 19 year old to have a child out of wedlock? Would you want your children to have children out of wedlock? How are you trying to justify this and furthermore, how are you even going to remotely claim that within the traditional Christian Armenian family unit it is morally and socially acceptable to do this? Lastly, what is your entire agenda by continually implying that upbringing has no impact on our decisions when in fact our values are based on our upbringing and background. I really am puzzled what response you want from me?

Remember, assimilation into western culture also brings a stop to religion and a great synisism to religion. Thus, these assimilated people will have very little to none of the Armenian Church and thus they will fail to follow the morality and family ideals that are so important to Armenian family and identity.

An Armenian who is not Armenian Christian is not Armenian; plain and simple. Armenian church is such a big element of our identity and is a major reason why we have been able to survive as a group.

[Virgil]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

While this is taking place in Armenia, perhaps they should also call the man a xxxxx, throw him out, beat him, and spit on him.

No, in Armenia and in the many parts of the world this kind of stuff does not happen. You don't find 12 year olds having sex with each other or terrorizing street corners. The entire "growing up process" is more wholesome and everyone has a bit more commonsense. Furthermore, most Armenians in Armenia are poor and even in those circumstances, crime, prostitution, illegitimate children, and drug use is far less than more developed nations.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

I'm glad Armenian society has not been corrupted too much by the American way. And very glad sexual revolution has not taken place. I am going to fight to keep this the standard in Armenian society. By bringing the great Armenian church more close to the state is the best way and making our laws also reflect higher moral standards. In Armenia, a xxxxx like Mariam would most likely get thrown out of her house and beat up and spat upon anybody who saw her and knew her. She would never have normal life. Western ways has its ups (like education, certain elements of democracy) but also its downs, which I don't have to repeat.

This is not what the Armenian Church teaches us to do at all. Those Armenians are acting from prejudice, not from the Church's teachings.

"The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?" This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."

John 8:3-7 (Revised Standard Version)

[jgk3]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

Yeah, it has bearing on her death, I don't know how else to respond to your post? What do you want me to explain? Do you think its normal for a 19 year old to have a child out of wedlock? Would you want your children to have children out of wedlock? How are you trying to justify this and furthermore, how are you even going to remotely claim that within the traditional Christian Armenian family unit it is morally and socially acceptable to do this? Lastly, what is your entire agenda by continually implying that upbringing has no impact on our decisions when in fact our values are based on our upbringing and background. I really am puzzled what response you want from me?

What? I just told you that you were correct in your assessment that having children out of wedlock is against traditionally Armenian values. If you need it to be made explicit, then yes I am quite against having children out of wedlock thank you, and I believe in a strong family unit. You still haven't shown me the connection though between bastard children and murder. And so long as you try to explain it in terms of betraying Armenian values (which I agree with you on), I will never ever see the connection.

[Virgil]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

What? I just told you that you were correct in your assessment that having children out of wedlock is against traditionally Armenian values. If you need it to be made explicit, then yes I am quite against having children out of wedlock thank you, and I believe in a strong family unit. You still haven't shown me the connection though between bastard children and murder. And so long as you try to explain it in terms of betraying Armenian values (which I agree with you on), I will never ever see the connection.

The connection is there, it just takes a leap of faith to actually see it.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

The connection is there, it just takes a leap of faith to actually see it.

Especially if unknowingly, you're not really the father of the little bastard and don't find out until later.

Next on Jerry Springer (Hrya)...

[jgk3]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

The connection is there, it just takes a leap of faith to actually see it.

damn... well, I guess we can stop arguing now.

[Siggie]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

The connection is there, it just takes a leap of faith to actually see it.

Facts don't require faith to demonstrate their veracity. Faith, by definition is belief in the absence of proof.

[Virgil]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenian Girl and Mom

Facts don't require faith to demonstrate their veracity. Faith, by definition is belief in the absence of proof.

Well, I don't want to argue, I don't see how I can provide the "proof" because their exists no statistical evidence, while we can't rely on observation because we clearly see the world differently. So, its not really a question of "proof", I can provide "proof", my own observations of life in Los Angeles, but I don't think you will accept it or claim that somehow it is "skewed".

For the most part, from my experiences, Armenian men and women make good father and mothers irrespective if they are divorced or not. Furthermore, for the most part, most the time, if you do see divergence from this, like having children out of wedlock, gang bangers, xxxxxs, xxxxs, thugs, dealers, fraudsters, and etc ... it is because of the influence of American culture. In fact, you can see foreign influences in many of the Armenian programming and attitudes on television. It does not take a moron to see the influence of American and Russian urban culture on Armenians and Armenia. It is this culture that leads to many of degenerate behaviors. If you were to go back to communist Armenia, aside from the minimal animosity between Yerevansi and non-Yerevansi (Again, this is a normal reaction and I see this in all Armenian communities and all people, don't ask, I don't want to explain), people were VERY different, more wholesome and cultured. You didn't have 12 year gang bangers on the streets of Yerevan or fake 20 dollar Bangkok hookers. Everyone had enough to survive, but in that survival, their basic needs were met, education, health care, and shelter. Government was corrupt, but clearly, it was not to the extent today and it was a corruption that had some oversight.

Lastly, I think there are many things that are wrong, but its not things that are uniquely Armenian and furthermore, since we always find ourselves in Armenian communities, we tend to see the negatives versus the positives among Armenians.

[Armanen]

Re: Las Vegas Shooting of Armenain Girl and Mom

The quality lies in one's personal awakening towards their culture, the quantity is just the mass of people who can potentially awaken in this way. They are not the same category, but there is a relationship between them.

We are not in the position to know exactly how and when an Armenian will awaken in this way, and we can do our best to stimulate their interest if they haven't. Taking a hardliner attitude about the whole thing will likely only attract types who are seeking to please and be accepted by those they esteem to be superiors. Is that the "quality" we are seeking?

Quality lies in much more than personal awakening, it lies in tradition and family, among other things. It would be great to have many dedicated people in any cause, especially the Hay Tad, but as history has shown us, change/revolution tends to come from above and it tends to be as a result of a small core of highly dedicated persons, not the rabble.

We have generalizations for a reasons, they tend to be correct more often than not. I agree that people with inferiority complexes may decide to join any cause, but many people who do join groups or movements have an urge to be a part of something larger than themselves and/or to find and give meaning to their life. This can also be interpreted as a complex, just depends on who is doing the interpretation and what their agenda is, because at the end of day we all have one.