“Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

[Anonymouse]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

I tell every guy upfront when we meet that I am a transexual. About 3/4 still want to date me anyway,they just don't want anybody else to know about it.

Are you Armenian? If so, do your parents know and if so, what problems has that caused?

[Siggie]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

Mouse, the references that I cited were mostly large review articles that based their conclusions on examination of numorous studies. The APA reference also would have examined all of the research at least that was published in APA journals.

Just because Anahita cited one study, doesn't mean she's cherry picking. You yourself have only produced that one. Yet I gave you references to many articles stating the opposite.

Regarding the criticism of her posted article:

There is a lot of debate in that entire area of research over how to define homosexuality and research that has examined different ways of defining it shows different results. They measures self report, attraction, prior sexual behavior, and physical measures of sexual arousal and they all give slighty different pictures. They found people who had never had homosexual experiences, didn't say they were attracted, didn't identify as gay or bisexual but were aroused physically, etc ... many different combinations. Just because there was a small difference on attraction ratings doesn't discount the rest of that body of research using different definition of homosexuality that found that it doesn't matter.

About the right to equality... fine if it's not guaranteed okay. But why only give them all the benefits of marriage in the form of domestic partnerships?

[Anonymouse]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

Mouse, the references that I cited were mostly large review articles that based their conclusions on examination of numorous studies. The APA reference also would have examined all of the research at least that was published in APA journals.

Just because Anahita cited one study, doesn't mean she's cherry picking. You yourself have only produced that one. Yet I gave you references to many articles stating the opposite.

Regarding the criticism of her posted article:

There is a lot of debate in that entire area of research over how to define homosexuality and research that has examined different ways of defining it shows different results. They measures self report, attraction, prior sexual behavior, and physical measures of sexual arousal and they all give slighty different pictures. They found people who had never had homosexual experiences, didn't say they were attracted, didn't identify as gay or bisexual but were aroused physically, etc ... many different combinations. Just because there was a small difference on attraction ratings doesn't discount the rest of that body of research using different definition of homosexuality that found that it doesn't matter.

About the right to equality... fine if it's not guaranteed okay. But why only give them all the benefits of marriage in the form of domestic partnerships?

So now it's the definition of homosexuality that's the problem? Modern academica, in fact, modern society from its post-modern roots has been very vocal on how anything can mean anything. Hence meaning in modernity loses its purpose as it becomes a case of 'anything goes'. What this reminds me of is that adage homosexuals like to throw out, namely how everyone is gay but they just 'dont know it'.

Be that as it may, in The History of Sexuality Foucault, himself a homosexual, identified homosexuality as a modern invention, i.e. the idea of homosexuality as a group in itself that is somehow distinct and conscious of itself. Prior to that there was never a question of whether homosexuality is a function of genetics or choice, etc. It was simply not seen as being a fundamental part of the person, but instead as an action, a tendency, a behavior, something the person engaged in. Only in modernity has it become part of identity politics. Even among the Greeks, where modern supporters of homosexual rights like to point, society was not what they make it out to be. In Greece men were fully allowed to engage in relationships with other men, provided that they eventually married. The Greeks understood a distinction between something one did as in a behavior, and an institution of civilization as in marriage. In Foucault's words:

"Homosexuality appears as one of the forms of sexuality when it was transposed from the practice of sodomy onto a kind of interior androgyny, a hermaphroditism of the soul. The sodomite had been a temporary aberration; the homosexual was now a species."

So the same post-modernist who were not hesitant to have created the politics of the left's identity politics to class homosexuality as a distinct identity, i.e. an alternative lifestyle, are also many of the vaunted experts who say how anyone can be a homosexual depending on who you ask, and the very word itself is as elastic as a rubber band.

EDIT: By the way, as an addendum, it should be noted that I do not support government monopoly on marriage licensing. It should be privatized and a matter of individual churches.

[transian]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

Are you Armenian? If so, do your parents know and if so, what problems has that caused?

Okay,I'm using my sister-in-law's computer and can now answer your questions. Yes,I am Armenian and am the oldest of three boys. My father and older brother have completely disowned me and I am not allowed in my father's house,he has vowed to never speak to me again. I still have a loving relationship with my mother and younger brother,his wife,my sister-in-law, treats me like a sister and my brother-in-law is somewhat homophobic but tolerates me. This all began when I "came out" at about age 18.

[Quarteria]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

So, you've had the surgery?

[transian]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

So, you've had the surgery?

No,I still have the weiner.

[Anahita]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

Okay,I'm using my sister-in-law's computer and can now answer your questions. Yes,I am Armenian and am the oldest of three boys. My father and older brother have completely disowned me and I am not allowed in my father's house,he has vowed to never speak to me again. I still have a loving relationship with my mother and younger brother,his wife,my sister-in-law, treats me like a sister and brother-in-law is somewhat homophobic but tolerates me.

Wow, Transian. I am proud of you for being who you are and I sincerely hope that these family members will, in time, learn to accept you for who you are. Your father and brother, are they just homophobic? Is that cultural for them? Both?

I certainly do love and accept you! Plus, you're strong and brave for coming out, here (and not just to people around you).

God Bless you!

[Anonymouse]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

Okay,I'm using my sister-in-law's computer and can now answer your questions. Yes,I am Armenian and am the oldest of three boys. My father and older brother have completely disowned me and I am not allowed in my father's house,he has vowed to never speak to me again. I still have a loving relationship with my mother and younger brother,his wife,my sister-in-law, treats me like a sister and my brother-in-law is somewhat homophobic but tolerates me. This all began when I "came out" at about age 18.

I am confused as to your order of brothers. You said you are the oldest yet stated an older brother, therefore, how old does that make you and your youngest brother that is married? So are your parents divorced? I am assuming this involved alot of arguments and bad times in the house. And if you live here would I be right in assuming you support same sex marriage?

[Anahita]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

I am confused as to your order of brothers. You said you are the oldest yet stated an older brother, therefore, how old does that make you and your youngest brother that is married? So are your parents divorced? I am assuming this involved alot of arguments and bad times in the house. And if you live here would I be right in assuming you support same sex marriage?

It is possible that transian wants/needs to protect anonymity. If I were transian, I'd do that, given the grief from family and all. Transian, I'd say, find your support people (or more than you already have). Those people are your core.

I'm curious. What do you think about the marriage in the post? Marriage in general?

[Quarteria]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

No,I still have the weiner.

Can't you just be a transvestite? PLEASE don't mutilate yourself.