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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Armenian Air Force







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    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Originally posted by Federate View Post
      No, I think that keeping the border as it is will be best for Armenia. It's not like we have snipers in trenches.
      An "as it is" with people on one side of the "border" unable to visit those on other side, something which they were easily able to do before the 1990s? An "as it is" where grazing and farming lands are artificially cut apart, and where the populations are at the mercy of border guards extorting money or worse from those who innocently infringe the mostly still unmarked border? A border which is mostly unmarked because nobody has yet formally defined all of it with the exactness needed to physically mark out a border line. A border whose existence separates and distances Georgians and Armenians from each other in a detrimental way. A border which for Armenia is really nothing more than a visa-issuing moneymaking scam. Since Georgia had got rid of its visa requirments, maybe that is why it is now more willing to remove the troops that it once needed to maintain its side of the border scam.

      The border existed as little more than a line on a map during the Soviet period, the only visual difference was that on one side the signs were in Georgian and Russian, and on the other side they were in Armenian and Russian. That (minus the Russian perhaps) was how it should have remained after independence - but it didn't, and it would benefit both countries if things could move back to those old open arrangements.
      Last edited by bell-the-cat; 04-15-2013, 01:46 PM.
      Plenipotentiary meow!

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      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by Federate View Post
        There are no gains to be made by demilitarizing a border with a country that has always had suspicious intentions towards us, that is in a de-facto axis of Turkey and Azerbaijan and where its border region are populated by Armenians who might need our backing in the future and Azeris who make up the majority of some of the other areas in Georgia that border Armenia.
        ^^^This

        and I say Armenia and NKR must try to run military exercises across all of her borders at least once a year, considering the security situation and danger to Armenia's sovereignty from all directions.
        Also until Georgia's leaderships come around to our side and stop working with the enemy and being such traitors to us, I don't see why such an idea would even be considered because it makes us look weak....and exactly what our enemies are looking for.
        B0zkurt Hunter

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        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          The 95th anniversary of the Armenian Police







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          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
            ^^^This

            and I say Armenia and NKR must try to run military exercises across all of her borders at least once a year, considering the security situation and danger to Armenia's sovereignty from all directions.
            Also until Georgia's leaderships come around to our side and stop working with the enemy and being such traitors to us, I don't see why such an idea would even be considered because it makes us look weak....and exactly what our enemies are looking for.
            Look at what you just wrote. If Armenia expects Georgia to "come around to its side", why would Armenia begin holding military exercises on its border with Georgia? The Georgians will think that Armenia is preparing for an attempt at Javahk, or that Russia is behind it. This will push them closer to Azerbaijan and Turkey.

            That's why demilitarizing the border is good. 1. Because it was a Georgian idea and 2. because it leads the way for the friendship that you mentioned.
            Ազատություն, արդարություն, ՀՅԴ

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            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Federate View Post
              No, I think that keeping the border as it is will be best for Armenia. It's not like we have snipers in trenches.
              Federate is correct on this issue. Take a look at the behavior of the Georgian government towards Armenia barely a year after Russia thoroughly spread some freedom and democracy towards Tblisi.

              A Georgian-Armenian Border Dispute?


              The complicated situation plaguing the Georgian regions bordering Armenia, known as the Armenian-populated Samtskhe-Javakhk region, is being compounded as Georgian authorities are prohibiting farmers there to work, essentially claiming that the land on which they live is Georgian territory.

              The focal point of this recent flare up is the border city of Bavra, whose residents were issued deeds by the Armenian State Committee on Real Estate from 1992 to 2004. But, because the Soviet demarcation of borders left a legal uncertainty, Georgia has intermittently annexed portions of that land and claimed it as its own by planting trees and vegetation and expanding its �forests.� This move is beeing seen as effectively seizing Armenian territory.

              This has created confusion in the area, with Armenian border guards not allowing Armenian residents of Bavra to cross the border, in an effort to not enflame matters, while on the other hand, Georgian border guards are being granted permission to arrest the people who have been living and working there for decades.

              Bavra community head Koriun Sumbulyan said that Georgian authorities have prevented the farmers to enter a 300-hectar lot on the �legally uncertain� area. This move has affected the economic well-being of the residents, who have appealed to the Armenian Foreign Ministry for assistance but have not received clear-cut answers.

              It is estimated that if the current status quo is not challenged and Georgian authorities are allowed to continue this �restructuring of the border,� Georgia could advance within the current Armenian border to the tune of 400 meters, where the boundaries of the Bavra village end.

              This revelation further enflames an already volatile situation for the majority-Armenian-populated region of Javakhk as a direct result of Tbilisi�s treatment of ethnic groups in Georgia. Javakhk Armenian community organizations have appealed to the central authorities and to the international community, thus far, to no avail.

              The Armenian government has reassured that the proper procedures were in place to address the issue, yet Armenia, since its independence has not had a clear strategy or policy toward Javakhk.

              Aside from the fallout from last summer�s war, which continues to have adverse effects on Armenia, Azeri and Turikic nations are increasing the population in the areas immediately bordering Armenia. In fact, on Wednesday, the Meskheti Community of Azerbaijan announced that it would be disbanding at the beginning of next year, because it has fulfilled its mission of populating the �displaced� Meskheti Turks in Georgia, �per Georgian law.�

              The Saakashvili administration has not learned its lesson from last year�s war and continues to embroil its population in conflicts fraught with intimidation and violation of basic human rights. Unfortunately, this behavior is only encouraged�and Armenian lives further endangered�partially by the flawed policies of the US, which has allowed Georgian authorities to take liberties that are outside of democratic norms.

              At the same time, the Armenian authorities� unwillingness to engage in matters related to the threat facing the population of Javakhk, as well as Armenia�s border, exacerbates the situation further. It�s high time for a clear and concise policy toward Georgia, and more important a strategy on Javakhk.


              http://asbarez.com/69787/a-georgian-...order-dispute/
              The Georgians are not only delusional about being a so-called "beacon of 'democrazy' shining unto the world" from the South Caucasus, but also crazed with a desire to expand the territory of their failed mini-empire. These people want everything Armenia has: they tried to one up Armenia by claiming that they were the first Christian state and holding sham celebrations in the year 2000, a year before Armenia officially and properly celebrated 1700 years as the first Christian state. They absolutely deny the undeniable fact that for a 1,000 years they were ruled by a royal house of Armenian origin named Bagratuni (georgianized as "Bagrationi"). They feverishly deny Armenia's Mashdots was involved in the creation of their alphabet. They try to erase Armenian language inscriptions and destroy Armenian Khatchkars in Armenian Churches located in Tblisi and then try to appropriate the historic monuments for themselves. Their tie-eating goofball president destroyed Armenian graves in the old Armenian quarter of Tblisi known as Havlabar so he could build a grotesque lair as the new headquarters for his failed government's executive office. They intended fully to invite turkish troops under a wider NATO banner to re-man the bases in Javakhk that the Russians had left, until they got some sense beaten into them in August 2008. They still intend to complete the turkish ring around Armenia by inviting Meshketian Turks to settle in Armenian Javakhk. And much like in Turkey and Azerbaijan, the word "Armenian" is a common insult in Georgia reserved for politicians who hold views that the insulting party doesn't approve of. They have never abandoned claims to several Medieval Armenian Churches in Lori Marz, and the more ambitious or honest Georgian leaders don't deny that they see Lori, as well as Turkish-occupied Artvin and Ardahan as regions of "Greater Georgia". And let's not forget Saakashvili's recent rant against the release of political prisoner Vahan Chakhalyan.

              Let's not kid ourselves, Georgia makes a fair profit on trade that flows through its territory to Armenia. They tax Armenia at a higher rate than they do their "strategic partner" Azerbaijan. They aren't doing us any favors by not colluding with the illegal Turkish and Azeri blockades of Armenia (that would be an act of war by Georgia), rather they are profiteering at Armenia's tight situation. Seems like those Israeli "advisers" taught them their traditional techniques well.

              I'm all for friendly relations and economic relations with Georgia (even though they are as economically desolate as we are and in fact their government debt is much higher thanks to Saakashvili's massive and unplayable loans from the international loan-sharks known as the IMF and the World Bank). But letting our guard down would be suicidal for Armenia. And it is not in any way, shape or form beneficial for strengthening Armenia's hand in on the Artsakh front, which is what this tread needs to focus on.
              Last edited by Sarkis86; 04-16-2013, 08:19 AM.
              Follow my comments on the blog http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

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              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                The 95th anniversary of the Armenian Police





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                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  With the failure of the Pakhlava revolution, we are now to demilitarize the border?

                  Fact of the matter is that the filthy Georgians are cutting down the trees! These same trees used to delineate the boarder between the two countries, it was agreed that the tree line was the border, till the Georgians started cutting the trees. Not only did they steal the trees, they extended their boarder as the agreement was “ The Tree Line “ This is one example of filthy Georgians at work! Now we should demilitarize this boarder? Never mind the national security issues, without the militarized boarder the filthy Georgians will simply grab more land and make it theirs, just like churches and the Armenian alphabet.

                  Lets not even go to the national security issues as there are many reasons for this. Of course the Georgians want to demilitarize the boarder, the same folks who have defense pact with toorks and baboons are giving advise to Armenians! Let us also not forget that Georgia has not allowed Russia to supply arms via Georgian territory. Lets leave this all aside and start listening to Georgians...LOL

                  Are these not the same idiots who played with Moscow during the Olympics hoping to get away with murder? What happened, they wind up eating their own ties on TV...LOL




                  Yea listen to them demilitarize...ROTFL!!
                  Last edited by Vahram; 04-16-2013, 07:05 PM.

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                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Originally posted by davidoga View Post
                    Look at what you just wrote. If Armenia expects Georgia to "come around to its side", why would Armenia begin holding military exercises on its border with Georgia? The Georgians will think that Armenia is preparing for an attempt at Javahk, or that Russia is behind it. This will push them closer to Azerbaijan and Turkey.
                    Why would Armenia care what Georgia thinks, as long as they get the message that we are serious about protecting our current borders.
                    I don't see why this would push Georgia closer to the Turks....any closer we demand to get invited to the wedding.

                    That's why demilitarizing the border is good. 1. Because it was a Georgian idea
                    So its a good idea to compromise Armenia's and NKR's security because Georgia said so?

                    and 2. because it leads the way for the friendship that you mentioned.
                    I never mentioned anything about friendship, that was you....I would never support that especially with a country we cannot trust,, unless they come around and repent.
                    Last edited by Eddo211; 04-16-2013, 09:35 PM.
                    B0zkurt Hunter

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                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      A serviceman killed and others injured in traffic accident in Azerbaijan

                      [ 17 April 2013 10:42 ]
                      Baku. Hafiz Heydarov – APA. Servicemen had a fatal traffic accident in Azerbaijan.

                      Bilasuvar District Police Office told APA that the accident occurred in the region.

                      "Mercedes" driven by the serviceman of the Defense Ministry's military unit, Lieutenant Rashad Mansimov went off the road and overturned.

                      As a result of the accident, Warrant Officer Kanan Atash Isgandarov died on the spot.

                      Driver of the car and other passenger, Captain Ramiz Murguzov were injured.

                      The investigation is underway on the fact.
                      apa.az

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