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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Originally posted by hrai View Post
    He's a politician, his snout's as deep in the trough as the rest of them. People seem to have been blinded to a degree by his color but he's the same as the rest.

    ^The guy that pissed me off so much I support the Republicans. I mean even Sarah Palin is better than Obama.
    Last edited by hipeter924; 05-09-2009, 03:16 PM.


    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      By David Stepanyan

      2009-05-11 13:16:00

      Exlcusive interview of Arkady Ter-Tadevosyan, Major General, Karabakh
      Hero, (nickname Commandos), with ArmInfo

      Mr. Major General, 18 years have passed since the operation
      'Koltso'. What was the real reason of those tragic events?

      Operation 'Koltso' was launched on April 29 in 1990 by the forces in
      Moscow that tried not to prevent the collapse of the USSR by all means
      in their hand. Then, three Baltic states as well as Armenia and Georgia
      came out with an initiative of withdrawal from the USSR. Therefore,
      an active agitation campaign was launched in the Soviet Union against
      the leaderships of those states that were accused of extremism and
      formation of armed gangs in their territories. Actually, enlisting the
      support of the Soviet army, the Azerbaijani leadership tried to take
      advantage of the general Soviet hysteria about the 5 ' breakaway '
      states in the context of Karabakh people's claims. Azerbaijanis were
      crossing the border to Armenia, stealing cattle, felling. When all
      this seemed insufficient to them, they began taking hostages. Operation
      'Koltso' was conducted throughout the Armenian-Azerbaijani border from
      Goris to Noyemberyan, Azerbaijani OMON backed by the Soviet army fired
      at peaceful Armenian population since they were charged=2 0by Moscow
      to liquidate the people arousing suspicion of involvement in armed
      gangs. Thus, a bus with 13 Armenian militiamen bearing no relations
      to 'armed gangs' was blasted. Hereby Moscow tried to repress the
      liberation movement in the 5 breakaway states. For this purpose the
      operation 'Koltso' was conducted and part of Nagorno Karabakh seized.

      In Karabakh, the operation was conducted under a sly name 'inspection
      of passport regime'. People have not understood yet the essence of
      that operation and its numerous victims. It seems to me that human
      lives have never been valuable in the USSR either during the Great
      Patriotic War or the whole history. The operation 'Koltso' was the
      last proof of my words.

      Would you tell about some details of the ceasefire signed in Bishkek
      in 1994?

      First of all, it were the Azerbaijanis that made us fight. At first
      we had neither desire nor possibilities to fight. We got all this
      later. What we learned at first was to fight back inside our country
      during occupation of Nogorno Karabakh by the Soviet troops and the
      Azerbaijani OMON. Later, when the USSR collapsed and the Soviet troops
      were withdrawn from Azerbaijan, Azerbaijanis were no longer able to
      fight against us since they could no longer fire at our soldiers backed
      by Russians. We could fight them down but our leadership in 1994 was
      persuaded to sign ceasefire, which I think was a big mistake. The
      following took place then: Aliyev asked Yeltsin, Nazarbayev and the
      remaining leaders of CIS to do their best to prevent the all-out
      offensive of the Armenian forces. As a result, Levon Ter-Petrosyan
      was forced to accept the persuasions by the presidents of Russia
      and Kazakhstan.

      Did we have enough potential in 1994 for further offensive?

      To say we had potential is to say nothing. That time the Azerbaijani
      army was fully paralyzed then and was simply unable to fight. We had no
      problem for further attacking them. However Bishkek treaty gave time to
      the Azerbaijanis to turn down. I think we had to fight the enemy down
      further attacking Azerbaijan and then make the lodgment we could really
      make. But we failed hereby short-selling the Talish people that are
      still striving to establish Talish republic. It is quite another point
      that the defense line we have today is optimal for us from the point of
      view of defense. We used to speak of Azerbaijan and the Azerbaijanis,
      but generally speaking there are no Azerbaijanis in that Azerbaijan.

      You mean that pursuing offensive we would make it possible for the
      oppressed national minorities in Azerbaijan to get self-determination
      and put an end to 'Azerbaijan existing for centuries'?

      Actually, our army would put an end to oppression of the national
      minorities in Azerbaijan. Of course, Aliyev would later try to unite
      them at lea st in an autonomous region and would succeed since he
      has always been tricky. Now, the Constitution of Azerbaijan has no
      provision on autonomy.

      So, the 'high level of autonomy' they are allegedly going to provide
      to Nagorno Karabakh has no single basis even in their legislation.

      Do you share the ARFD's stand on the Armenian-Turkish relations? Do
      you think it possible for Karabakh to become a map, at least a road-map
      on the negotiating table?

      I am non-party but has always sympathized with Dashnaktsutyun, which
      is the oldest Armenian party. However, I think that at such important
      historical moment for Armenia they shouldn't leave the coalition. Serzh
      Sargsyan has repeatedly declared that the Karabakh conflict cannot
      be a precondition to the Armenian-Turkish relations. The president
      has repeatedly said the same also about Genocide. The same did our
      foreign minister. I agree with the ARFD that Turks will never make
      peace with us. I don't trust in them since they have always subjected
      Armenians to oppressions and persecutions.

      So, we must always be on guard in the relations with them. But it does
      not mean that we should abandon normalizing relations with Turkey,
      which is just one of the dangers threatening us.

      What do you think about the current situation in Karabakh?

      I have returned from Karabakh quite recently and I am going to visit
      it for a few days again. I'd like to highlight that dramatic changes
      are taking place there. The state building in the NKR has grown
      so that the country is able to protect itself against any external
      threats. The only negative feature of the Karabakh people is that they
      do not strive for peaceful work. Instead, they just wait for a call
      for war to show what they are able to. If the Karabakh people worked
      as good as they fight, it would be excellent. But they are working in
      this dimension and finding feed. I was in Mardakert region, in Shushi,
      Stepanakert. A big work is being carried out there and something is
      also being prepared for Azerbaijanis.

      If nevertheless we manage to agree with Turkey and open the border
      without preconditions, would it deprive Azerbaijan of the last chance
      to unleash new aggression against Karabakh?

      Opening of the border to Turkey has no importance or influence on
      Karabakh issue. Armenia's blockade by Azerbaijan and Turkey does not
      affect our fighting efficiency. The only thing Baku can rely on in
      the fight against us is the principle of territorial integrity that
      is opposed by another Equivalent principle of the international law
      - the people's right to self-determination. These two rights do not
      and will never meet each other.

      So the format of negotiations should be changed. I do not think that
      the situation may change from this point of view in the nearest future.

      Nevertheless, Turkey will never betray Baku even=2 0if the border
      to Armenia is opened. The processes in the relations of Armenia
      and Turkey can be explained by the interest of Russia and the USA
      in establishment of the diplomatic relations between Yerevan and
      Ankara. And against this background Baku can be unalarmed.

      Is it possible to say that the current status-quo is in favor
      of everyone and no one including Azerbaijan needs new aggression
      against NKR?

      The point is that Azerbaijan has always bluffed and keeps on bluffing
      when threatening with resumption of military actions. Let's Aliyev
      unleash new war. What will it bring to him except thousands of
      new victims on both parties? It is the only circumstance that
      explains our unwillingness to be involved in the new adventure of
      Baku. They are well aware that we are afraid of war as much as we want
      it. Azerbaijan is not ready for war today and Aliyev does not need it
      either. The oil-dollars belonging to the Azerbaijani people go to his
      pocket. Moreover, Aliyev receives only 10-15% of the proceeds from oil,
      the remaining belong to foreign companies that have invested billions
      in recovery of oil and now wait for return. From this point of view
      Aliyev is bound hand and feet.

      So why Aliyev buys arms and proclaims it to the whole world?

      Because it remains for Aliyev just to make military rhetoric, buy
      and produce arms. Azerbaijan has rather big program on purchase and
      production of w eapons. Baku is even going to produce helicopters
      'Uragan' etc.

      However we should not forget that it is also business of generals. If
      someone really studies out what Azerbaijan has recently purchased,
      it will turn out that Azerbaijan removed the whole stuff accumulated
      in Ukraine after withdrawal of Soviet troops from the GDR. Business
      is business. One should not forget about defeatist syndrome that
      originated in Azerbaijan after Karabakh campaign. For instance,
      a similar syndrome exists in Turkey with regard to Russia.

      This defeatist syndrome is one of the reasons of Aliev's bellicose
      sentiments. Aliyev tries to replace in Azerbaijan the spirit
      of Karabakh army that is unbreakable. In addition, there is
      also the military theory of generating combat power in the chief
      direction of supposed breakthrough. In compliance with this theory,
      the attacking party must prevail over the defending one three or
      even four times. There is also the moral aspect requiring similar
      prevalence i.e. Azerbaijan needs at least 250,000 manpower even for
      theoretical breakthrough which is impossible since Azerbaijani army
      does not exceed even 125,000 people and has no special reserves.

      Thank you.


      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan


        2009-05-11 13:00:00

        ArmInfo. Nagorny Karabakh Republic Defense Ministry press- service
        reported that on May 10 2009 at 9:45 am a sergeant of the 702nd
        motorized rifle brigade of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces, Anar
        Khanbab-oghlu Hadzhiyev, arbitrarily left the observation post,
        crossed the southern border of the contact-line of the NKR and
        Azerbaijan armed forces and yielded himself hostage to Karabakh army.

        During the preliminary interrogation, the Azerbaijani sergeant said
        he had to go on such step because of humiliating treatment of juniors.


        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Karabakh Defense Minister Opposes Ceding of Liberated Territories

          STEPANAKERT–The Nagorno-Karabakh Republic’s top military official signaled on Monday his opposition to the ceding of any of the seven Armenians districts liberated fromAzerbaijani rule during the 1991-1994 Karabakh conflict, reported RFE/RL.

          “All the territories that we had liberated required human victims, and every person here has memories related to them,” Karabakh’s Defense Minister, General Movses Hakobian, told a news conference. “It will be difficult to cede those territories to anyone.”

          The remarks highlighted the Karabakh Republic’s serious misgivings about the basic principles of a Karabakh settlement proposed by the U.S., Russian and French mediators co-chairing the OSCE Minsk Group.

          Hakobian’s remarks came as the US Co-chair of the OSCE Minks Group, Matthew Bryza, announced the same day that the liberated territories surrounding the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic will be turned over to Azerbaijan with plans to resettle those areas with so-called Azeri refugees and that Karabakh will be granted a new status, the nature of which is the subject of negotiations.

          The peace talks, currently between Armenia and Azerbaijan, call for the return of at least six of those liberated districts, which have served as a buffer zone preventing a renewed Azerbaijani attack since a cease fire was signed in 1994. The return of those districts would also be followed by a referendum of self-determination in Karabakh.

          “It is impossible to implement any decision not accepted by the Nagorno-Karabakh people,” said Hakobian, adding that Armenia’s President Serzh Sarkisian should “not make a decision that could harm the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.”

          A referendum on December 10 1991 already approved Karabakh’s declaration of independence in accordance with the Soviet Constitution. An overwhelming majority of voters (98.6%) in Karabakh turned out for a second referendum that same day in 2006, voting to approve a new constitution reaffirming that Nagorno-Karabakh is a sovereign state.

          Those referenda, however, are largely ignored by the Madrid principles, which serve as the current working document for a Karabakh peace.

          But Karabakh’s Foreign Minister, Georgi Petrosian, said on April 29 that the authorities in Stepanakert strongly disagree with “several basic points” of the proposed peace accord.

          Karabakh President Bako Sahakian, speaking to journalists over the weekend, reiterated those concerns, saying that no Armenian-Azerbaijani agreements can be put into practice without being approved by the Karabakh Armenians and the Karabakh Republic.

          The general spoke ahead of the 15th anniversary of a Russian-mediated truce agreement that stopped the Armenian-Azerbaijani war. The Minsk Group co-chairs issued a statement on that occasion on Monday urging the sides to bolster the ceasefire regime.

          According to Hakobian, the Azerbaijani Armed forces had violated the cease fire regime 3,480 times during 2008, with the Karabakh forces violating it 728 times.

          Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!


          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            May 11, 2009

            Armenians, If You Live In New Jersey, Please Read

            Hello fellow Armenians

            There is a foreign aid bill being marked up tomorrow, and Sen. Lautenberg serves on this committee. We need to make calls into his office! If at least half of you call, that's over 50 calls to his office!

            Please see the talking points below and give him a call today-- The markup is tomorrow-- so you can still cal in the AM-- it only takes a minute or two-- it's super easy to call.

            Sample Message for Your Senator:
            Senator Lautenberg (202) 224-3224

            Hi, my name is [NAME] and I'm calling from New Jersey and want to leave a message for the Senator.

            I am calling about the foreign aid bill.

            I urge the Senator to maintain proper support for Armenia, which continues to be a reliable and democratic ally in the region. In the face of an ongoing and illegal blockade by Turkey and Azerbaijan, I'm asking that aid to Armenia be at least $70 million, which it has traditionally received.

            In order to maintain stability in the region, I ask that you increase oversight for military aid to Azerbaijan, which constantly threatens Nagorno Karabakh with its increased war rhetoric. We should not provide military assistance to a government that vows to wage war against an ally.

            Also, I urge you to provide $10 million in development aid to Nagorno-Karabakh, which will help rebuild that region that has consistently held democratic, internationally-monitored elections. We should end both the outdated restrictions on development assistance to Nagorno Karabakh and U.S. contacts with Nagorno-Karabakh. There should be open lines of communication between U.S. and Karabakh government officials.
            I would like to request a written reply from the Senator.

            My address is [YOUR ADDRESS]. Thank you.
            Last edited by KanadaHye; 05-11-2009, 04:49 PM.
            "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Has the OSCE Minsk Group said something because something has pissed the azeris off. According to
              "the co-chairs issued a statement supporting the position of President of Armenia and, apparently, the views of the co-chairs."
              i dont know what they mean. Has the OSCE Minsk Group said they support Armenia or something?
              Here is the full article:

              Presidential Administration's department chief: Perhaps, Matthew Bryza provides Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama with false information for career advancement

              12 May 2009 [11:24] - Today.Az

              "I can not predict future moves, but I am surprised why the OSCE Minsk Group is not talking about the real situation?", said chief of Department for External Relations of the presidential administration Novruz Mamedov, voicing sharp condemnations for the co-chairs of the Minsk Group, in particular, US co-chair Matthew Bryza.

              N. Mamedov noted that during the last meeting of the Presidents of Armenia and Azerbaijan, the Armenian side has shown itself as extremely unconstructive.

              "In particular, they did not want to take any step towards resolving the conflict, and once again demonstrated the territorial claims to Azerbaijan. Despite this, without consulting the President of Azerbaijan, the co-chairs issued a statement supporting the position of President of Armenia and, apparently, the views of the co-chairs.

              That is, they are provide the world community , the president and the secretary of state, with wrong information as regards to progress, reconciliation of positions and so on. This is another proof of the special attitude towards Armenia, which is an aggressor country and protection of its interests. On the other hand, the co-chairs are interested in delaying the process, continuing missions and their functions," said N. Mamedov.

              Day.Az reports with reference to the Azadlyg radio that Novruz Mamedov also said maybe Matthew Bryza provides Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama with false information for career advancement, promotion etc. "I have no other assumptions".

              He also noted that it is better for Matthew Bryza to speak of Armenian President's position and the steps Serzh Sargsyan made for reconciliation.

              "The President of Azerbaijan has repeatedly said that we recognize the right of peoples to self-determination, but it can only be exercised within the framework of Azerbaijan's territorial integrity".

              N. Mamedov did not comment on what the rejection of Minsk Group services will bring to Azerbaijan noting only that this question should be left for later.




              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                US Ambassador justifies violation of military assistance parity for Yerevan and Baku
                12.05.2009 20:26 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail

                /PanARMENIAN.Net/ US Ambassador to Armenia Mari Yovanovich justifies violation of military assistance parity for Yerevan and Baku.

                “Regarding military assistance, the Administration’s FMF request for Armenia in FY 2010 is the same level as Armenia received in FY 2009. There has been no decrease. The specific increase for Azerbaijan is linked to U.S. priorities in peacekeeping and maritime security, particularly regarding proliferation and drug trafficking on the Caspian Sea. The respective levels requested for Armenia and Azerbaijan are carefully considered and calibrated to ensure that they do not adversely affect the military balance in the region or undermine efforts for a peaceful settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict; they do, however, provide appropriate assistance to each country that will enhance their interoperability and military professionalism,” she stated.

                US administration in his Fiscal Year 2010 International Affairs budget requested cut aid to Armenia. The budget request also upsets the balance of military aid parity between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

                In particular, the U.S. administration proposes to provide $30 million in Economic Assistance. Additionally, the budget did not include funding for Nagorno Karabakh, while in FY 2009 Congress approved $8 million.

                Besides, the Administration's FY 2010 funding proposal for Foreign Military Financing calls for $3 million for Armenia and $4 million for Azerbaijan. The proposed budget also suggests $900,000 for Azerbaijan versus $450,000 for Armenia in International Military Education and Training assistance.
                You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience!!!!!!!

                "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire


                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Last August, user Armenian posted information (based on word of mouth) that we had managed to capture more territories from the "Azeris" and killed a bunch of them in the process. Four months later in December, I posted a link from an interview with Artsakh's defense minister General Movses Hakobian that hinted that this was true. This exchange can be found in this post.

                  Well, five months later, General Movses is back and he's got brand new good news for us If you're reading this Armenian, a toast to you comrade.
                  NKR Forces Along Arax River Advance 4 Kilometers in 2009

                  At a press conference held today, Lieutenant General Movses Hakobyan, NKR Defense Minister stated that the Armenian front lines on the right flank along the Arax River had advanced by some four kilometers. He said this was a result of the response by the NKR forces to constant Azeri maneuvering for better positions along the demarcation line.

                  Lieutenant General Hakobyan also stated that during last year the forces of the NKR army also improved its frontline positions on the left flank of the demarcation line as well.

                  The NKR Defense Minister stated that in 2006 there were 589 incidents of Azeri firing violations along the ceasefire line and 116 by the NKR. In 2007, Azeri violations amounted to 1,445 incidents with 431 by the NKR. These figures rose to 3,480 and 728 respectively. This year, there have been, 1098 shots fired by the Azeri side and 186 by forces of the NKR in response.

                  “The NKR Defense Forces have thwarted all attempted infringements by the enemy and I have given my permission to our frontline soldiers to respond when the need arises,” stated Lieutenant General Hakobyan. He added that such independent response reaction has forced the enemy to remain bunkered down and has allowed the Armenian side to remain in a dominant position where it is the one calling the shots.

                  “The entire situation on the frontline is constantly being monitored and under control. There are no problems to be reported. All security issues have been addresses. The only problems that do pop up on the frontline are only individual cases of misconduct,” the Defense Minister added.

                  Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!


                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Originally posted by Federate View Post
                    Last August, user Armenian posted information (based on word of mouth) that we had managed to capture more territories from the "Azeris" and killed a bunch of them in the process. Four months later in December, I posted a link from an interview with Artsakh's defense minister General Movses Hakobian that hinted that this was true. This exchange can be found in this post.

                    Well, five months later, General Movses is back and he's got brand new good news for us If you're reading this Armenian, a toast to you comrade.........
                    So what are we getting at here Federate, are we speculating that even though it appears that Russians are going along with the West in the opening of the borders……… all reality, during their punishment of Georgia they used that cover and told Armenia to advance and put a gun right on that pipeline's head that the West is so interested in (Owns?), the same ones who try to reduce the Russians influence in the region.

                    If anything like this is true then that changes a lot of things………….Russian Roulette comes to mind.
                    Last edited by Eddo211; 05-13-2009, 03:00 PM.
                    B0zkurt Hunter


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Apres Hayastan.

                      We should continue forward slowly and take all their land.