Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

[UrMistake]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

The Caucasian Albania has no what's so ever connection to the new Albanian republic,the only similar is the naming that comes from the greek alban word that in ancient times described the mountain people,dont forget the ancient caucasian albania had many different tribes.
The Balkan Albanians has no connection genetically or linguistically to ancient caucasian ones neither any immigration took place of that people.

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

The Caucasian Albania has no what's so ever connection to the new Albanian republic,the only similar is the naming that comes from the greek alban word that in ancient times described the mountain people,dont forget the ancient caucasian albania had many different tribes.
The Balkan Albanians has no connection genetically or linguistically to ancient caucasian ones neither any immigration took place of that people.

I disagree. I'm not talking about new Albania republic though. That republic has such a heavy Slavic stamp(stomp) not to mention the Greeks or roman hammer it's confusing the "Albanian" issue.
In my opinion many of these unintelligible to each other languages in both caucasia and Balkan areas are in fact related. I was hoping to find a relating substrate when my search endeavor crashed. Insofar as genetic relation I again disagree. Have to go
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[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Insofar as genetic relation or lack of between Caucasian and balkan I find that impossible to believe.
The devastation the original"Albanian experienced may greatly obfuscate the genetic relation but I dought that a genetic relation cannot be established. Had this as a search point and was not sure how exactly to tackle but will pursue that to its conclusion.
The name or word "Albanian" was not what these people originally called themselves but rather a name given to them by others.
There are many "Albanians" in America. I know of a family that owns a restaurant. Have talked with them before. Will make a point to talk again in more depth next time I pass that area.
Never personally met an Udi but have searched out pictures of faces. Many are the spitten image of each other.
Was searching the "word" Albanian and before I crashed kept comming up with different claims as to origination.
Without knowing what the word means or why whoever called them that and why they chose to call them that I'll say this ----- one of the common things I see amongst the two people's is the " pale-- ness of their skin. If I was going to describe them I would be tempted to call them "pale" people.
Artashes

[Vrej1915]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

[Vrej1915]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Insofar as genetic relation or lack of between Caucasian and balkan I find that impossible to believe.
The devastation the original"Albanian experienced may greatly obfuscate the genetic relation but I dought that a genetic relation cannot be established. Had this as a search point and was not sure how exactly to tackle but will pursue that to its conclusion.
The name or word "Albanian" was not what these people originally called themselves but rather a name given to them by others.
There are many "Albanians" in America. I know of a family that owns a restaurant. Have talked with them before. Will make a point to talk again in more depth next time I pass that area.
Never personally met an Udi but have searched out pictures of faces. Many are the spitten image of each other.
Was searching the "word" Albanian and before I crashed kept comming up with different claims as to origination.
Without knowing what the word means or why whoever called them that and why they chose to call them that I'll say this ----- one of the common things I see amongst the two people's is the " pale-- ness of their skin. If I was going to describe them I would be tempted to call them "pale" people.
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Yes I agree. Sorry for paultry crap.
Without using my computer ineptitude as an excuse I think the scholarly look being taken holds genuine ilucidation on this very subject. I cannot say any more for it struck me that contentions about what author was attempting to expound were heating up.
I am going to find name of author/book in next day or two but need to stop spending so much time fighting computer.
Are you saying you don't know what book I'm speaking of(Georgian woman finds "old Albanian type in Alexandria Egypt -- German plus another scholar etc"?
These particular studies are at one of the cardinal points of this specific quest.
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Also if I'm not mistaken I think(but not sure) the author may address not only caucasia/balkan but also multitude of languages. Probably going to get reprimanded fo anticipating.
Have not stopped endeavor but gotta give my brain a rest from computer fighting.
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

Sorry, I did not knew.
I was saying, I had never read, that we were the indigenous people north east of the Kur river.
I was interested if you had sources.
I similarly never read any link whatsoever linking Caucasian and Balkanian 'Albanians', even in their origins, or in their original migrations.
I have a slight idea about indo-european migrations, and the different theories about them, but have a rather good idea about our national history, and as a matter of fact, being one of the oldest nations with the Persians and the Greeks, why should we trust more others than our sources?
At least ours are continuous since at least Ardashisyan dynasty...
So, to my knowledge, and according our classical knowledge, we Armenians are the result of the indigenous Ourartean and proto-Armenian (Hayasa/Nayiri...) tribes, and the mix of 'Armen' tribes (usually presented as coming in from the west, but this is still object to lot of academic disputes, even the '%' newcomers addition to the end product turns out to be largely disputed...)
Anyway, this is not the matter.
We were there much before all others, specially much before the nowday Georgians, so azaris and Turks are not even a matter, since their arrival is pretty well documented and not a subject of academic dispute, put aside their internal caricatural propaganda.
But to my knowledge, while the ethnographic borders of Armenia on the western, and southern sides are very complicated, exceeding largely the borders of Medz and Pokkr Hayks, plus I, II, III, IV Hayks (nowdays Yozgad, etc... being ethnically mix and for some times under armenian principalities, independent of the main Armenian Kingdoms)..., on the North West, in all sources, generally we admit that Armenians were limited by the Kur river.
I never read that originally, the Shirvan plain and the Absheron peninsula was inhabited by the Armenian ethnos.
Of course there were Armenian principalities and fortified towns in Vartashen, Goudgashen, Shamakh, Terpend, etc... for some periods, with sizable populations, but these were people having emigrated, with their princes/meliks, from mainly Oudik, Arsakh and Syounik, due to political events, invasions, etc... as were the case with the case of Kakhet (nowday georgianised population is directly related to Artsakh, with replication of original village and topographic names, still existing in modern Artsakh), or the princes of Vanant, Dourouperan and Dayk princes who emigrated due to Byzantine policy to the Balkans with entire populations...
Or on a totally different scale the emigration of Bagratide/Roupinians to Kilikia and Crimea after the fall of Ani....

But this does not change the fact, that the ethnos living north of the Kur was different, mainly named by us as Aghvans, with actual remains probably like the Udis, Tzakours??.... of course no link in any manner with the central asian nomads that came in later, much later, while there were arabs, persians, etc... before.
The Talysh are a people having coexisted with the Aghvans, since their place was south of Paydagaran, and had no direct contact with the Aghvans land.
At least, this is my knowledge.
And as you see, I like reading, and would be very interested, if you can give me sources indicating otherwise

Jost Gippert, Wolfgang Schultz, Zaza Aleksidze, and J P Mahe' --- somewhere in this group is a large book
About "Old Albanian" (controversy). Maybe printed around 2010. Computer action is destroying my brain.
But I think in this book that I'm going to find(sooner or later) is much relevant scholarship on several of points you inquired of me. I think I need to get a "kindle" to read with . Am continueing to get sources you requested but besides my ultra weak computer skills am running up against racism, nationalism, and scholarly Hissy fits to name a few obstacles. Am continueing in Ernest.
Vrej 1915 do you know what book I'm speaking of?
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

In reference to above post number 78.
Am not sure if I'm doing this right but here goes ---
Title? --- the Caucasian Albanian Palimsests of Mount Sinai Monumenta Palaeographica Medi Avei: series IBERO-Caucasica/SIBE 2 XXIV+530 --- hardback, Brepois. ISBN 978-2-503-53116-8
Vrej1915 does any of that make sense to you?
I'm not sure but think maybe Wolfgang Schultz may also have put out another scholarly (book, paper?) adjacent to questions you asked me. Am looking into that also. He is an acknowledged Udi scholar I think.
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Artsakh, Lezgistan, Avaristan, Taloshistan

In reference to above post number 78.
Am not sure if I'm doing this right but here goes ---
Title? --- the Caucasian Albanian Palimsests of Mount Sinai Monumenta Palaeographica Medi Avei: series IBERO-Caucasica/SIBE 2 XXIV+530 --- hardback, Brepois. ISBN 978-2-503-53116-8
Vrej1915 does any of that make sense to you?
I'm not sure but think maybe Wolfgang Schultz may also have put out another scholarly (book, paper?) adjacent to questions you asked me. Am looking into that also. He is an acknowledged Udi scholar I think.
Artashes

I am not sure if this specific book is going to satisfy all points brought in question but think from this piece of scholarship light on the multitude of tongues and Caucasian/Balkan connect can be found by seeking parifial scholarly endeavors. Much reading is evolved. You mentioned you(Verj1915) liked reading. I'm going to get a "kindle?) soon.
Artashes