Armenia: A Second Israel

[UrMistake]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Im with u Hye jan,its like u read my mind.

The bigest priority for survival in some decent way for Armenia is to have strong political leaders serving its people and not interest.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hye,

It is because of a corrupt goverment that Armenia doesn't fund its children to go to higher universities and study.

Suedia, is Svedia, the region of Moussaler

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hye,

It is because of a corrupt goverment that Armenia doesn't fund its children to go to higher universities and study.

Suedia, is Svedia, the region of Moussaler

Or it doesn't have the money to fund kids to go to college? Have you thought of that? Armenia has a very limited resources and needs to spread it around the whole country.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

KaroTheGreat,

There is truth in what you say, but how can it be that the oligarchs in Armenia have become MULTI BILLIONAIRES? If you've noticed, there is no middle class in Armenia, it's either very low or very high.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

KaroTheGreat,

There is truth in what you say, but how can it be that the oligarchs in Armenia have become MULTI BILLIONAIRES? If you've noticed, there is no middle class in Armenia, it's either very low or very high.

Most of those people that are 'billionaires', and believe me there is no maybe one billionaire in Armenia, they work in private like trade or are crime lords. And the ones who are rich use their money to buy their way in the government.

It's like saying Dodi Gago is stealing from Armenia, he isn't and I don't he will. Because the super rich don't steal but the ones below are the ones who are doing the stealing and the corrupting. The Super rich are to rich for that. And the corrupt ones need to be removed.

Now about the middle class, Armenia is a recovering economy that needs time to get going. And the Armenians middle class is growing trust me. Look at Armenia ten years ago and tell me if it's the same country and what will look like over 10 years in the future?
The country will have a middle class, the government will be less corrupt and maybe then we will have money to pay for students but till than we need the money in other places. And the army can use the money more than the student.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

The rich is stealing from the poor, which is why the poor become corrupted and steal from each other. Surely there has been progress between 10 years, but still...

As much rich someone can get, he always wants more. That's how man was born: Greedy.

[Hye]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hi there,
I'm little late and there are many replys already good to know new memebers are joining the discussion to my points.

I think you got me a little wrong here. Let me explain again. I confirm and agree there is ALOT of corruption in Armenia. I don't wana argue about that. I will not insist on wether it's getting better or worse because i don't live there. But Let's be fair with Armenia with this small country with very limited resources, ability, manpower, economy ...etc. Let's not forget after all it is just a country like ANY other country in the world. It has criminals, orgenised crime, theives, corruption ...etc. but who hasn't? Armenia is a third world country who got independence just recently. it belongs to third world country so it will be like many other third world countries. First of all let's accept that. Let's not blame the current government either because Sarksian(s) or any other person isn't the causes of the corruption it is such we inherited it from sovieet union such THE PEOPLE ARE SUCH let's accept the conditions brought to be such if it wasn't Serj there would have been mardig or hovsep or hagop who will be the leader and we will blame him. But is this enough reason to continue the corruption? HELL no it has been almost 20 years we got independance and we need to see improvement although there are countires like Lebanon have had independance for more than 60 years and are still even MORE corrupt than Armenia. How to imporove this?


In my opinon those people, specially Diasporans, who don't want corruption let them start with themselves. Agian I wana talk about middle east coz i live here and I know about it if you live in other parts of the world i would be very intrested to know how things work there. If a Lebanese Armenian talks about corruption in Armenian I would tell him look at yourself here we ahve ALOT of corruptionin in OUR ARmenian institutions and organisations. There are life serving preseidents and so called leaders people stealing from organisations Parties mingling in church affairs. if we want Armenia to end it's corruption let's set an example to them let's show them how and only then we should critisize. I'm ALWAYS AND ALWAYS am against blind critisizm.


EVEN if Armenia is a corrupt nation that is NO reason not to help Armenia economically. Even if Armenia is the dump of the world it is OUR "dump" we are OBLIGED to do EVERYTHING we can to make this "dump" a heaven. If you think the money you sent isn't going to its right place or it's perpouse do it yourself find ways if you search you will find. As far as Im concerned All Armenian Fund is working with enoug trancparency.


Suedia, we should understand that Armenia's biggest problem isn't corruption it is lack of money because even if there was no corruption Armenia because of it's geographic location, blockades and many other factors has weak economy so our duty is financing Armenia first and simultaiousely fixing the corruption. i told you if you educate people and you have no job oportunity to them its all in vain. If we give an Armenian from Armenia full scholarship to Harvard and he will go and do great then will he want to go back to Armenia where he has no oprtunity to reach to the top? NO he would like to stay in USA coz he has more oportunity there. But if you educate in Hravard then give him well paid job in Armenia with oportuny to do better he will return.


So if Armenias problem is money today first and formost we must find ways to fix this. Let's face it Armenia because of Gegraohical reasons has no resouces it's oil wells are located outside of it's borders in the dispora so our primary goal is to orgenize the diaspora exploit all its finential resources to help Armenia if we diasporans do our part of the job well as it should be done then and only then we could critisize Armenia. Let's not ask of Armenia more than it's potential. Don't get me wrong Im not saying the diaspora is doing nothing its doing alot but in my opinon not enoup coz we can do MUCH more believe me. And it makes me fureouse that we don't do more for me it's even crime towards our nation that we don't do more.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hye, ok now I understand you. Unfortunanetly yes, Armenia's Geographical location is both an advantage and a disadvantage. The disadvantage is that it's landlocked. The advantage is that we are the only ones who are not allowing the turanian races to unite geographically. I think that it would be wise for the international community, especially the EU to prevent the turanians from uniting and to help Armenia stay that blockade. Imagine a huge Turania stretching from the borders of Greece to China. They would become a new "sarsap" to the world.

We Armenians should put our emotions aside. Nothing will change if Armenians keep yelling protesting etc. The so-called "democracy" invented the idea of "peaceful protests" in order to prevent revolution in the country(any country). Instead of going out in the streets, we should start planning, look into the future, see who is getting stronger who weaker, with whom should we align now, with whom later? etc etc

Vardan Petrosyan with his astounding performances transmits many things to us, here is one of his videos where he talks about what Armenia should be really doing, even though he said it in a comic way, there are many points that we should really consider:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heU27ab5Ec8

[Hye]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hi Suedia
First of all I have heard about Vardan Petrosyan before but didn't have the chance to see his performance he is very good and has a lot of good ideas he is performing a tragedy with laughter. Yeah we came to this sadly.


I would like to point out from my first post in this tread till now I have been repeating one thing over and over again i dono if you notice. WE MUST PLAN, THEN PLAN, THEN PLAN AND ALWAYS PLAN FOR THE FUTURE he is also talking about this. In our modern history there isn't any single time where we had planed our steps. Even in Gharapagh movement it was done without through planing and knowing the concrete steps that we have to take but for once history and God became on our side. Together with heroics and the will to fight and little bit of organisaton we won the war. But if we look at other times where we forged wars it was even worse. I don't want to go back in history and point out our faults we have many but I wana give the recongniton of the Armenian Genocide. I have asked and will ask again does anyone in this forum or in the world know about a certain Armenian comitee or a body that have set down and created a systemetic plan to atchieve the recognition of the Armenian Genocie? We don't even know for sure wether if we will ask finential reparation or lands from Turkey. This is a shame. We don't even know what will we do if today Obama or USA congress recognizes the Armenian Genocide. If there is such a plan please be my guest Im eager to know about. And for me The genocide recognition though very important isn't a priority. How are we gona keep this "pur m@ hogh"? This guy can't be more right he is moking all of us he is saying all those I wrote in one of my posts, Where Anoush got offended, but with a humor this is tragedy people.


To tell you with my limited resouces and limited ability I have such plan or a vision of the future for Armenia and Armenian nation this is very complex question that must be solved on national level we are losing valueble time and history doesn't wait it is so cruel and has no mercy. I have talked about my little plan for our future in bits and pieces I donno if you have understood it if you read my posts carefully you would notice.

Coming to what he is saying about China, well Im sure not all what he says is what he thinks so afterall he is doing a stand up comedy but i will repeat China is NOT and WILL NEVER be the next superpower unless i donno a miracle happens. or let me put it this way China has very very little chance to be a super power. Because China has HUGE problem it's enemy is within itself and USA nor ANYONE has anything to do to beat china it will and always beat itself. The more china opens to the world the more vulnrable it gets to revolutions loss of central government control the coastal population will always demand more fredom and the internal population will demand destribution of wealth and its inevitable sooner or later the chinese government will close itself just like it has been for centuries. Moreover China because of its Geography and vast mountain chains in its north and west and nothwest, where it has only a small portion of passable fields on Kazakh border, is not capable to spread out millitaryly can't take areas outside its borders under its military influence. Also China isn't capable to chalange USA in the sea actually no one is. So USA will control the oceans so China has no capabality to rise as a superpower.


If we like it or not now and the years to come the center of the world is and will be NORTH AMERICA, just like Europe was before 1950s. Lets face it today if you don't ahve sea border you are domed look at Armenia its the best example you cannot grow. What about if there is a continent dominated by a single country USA (by the way Europe at it's hights wasn't dominated by single power) has border with the 2 most important oceans in the world where all of the trads are being done in it. Now building and maintaining a vast navy to control 2 huge oceans is itself very expensive what if the country that is building to control that ocean doesn't have any border with them this will make it even more and more expensive. USA doesn't have this problem it's the cheapest for USA compared to any other country in the world (Mexico and Canada excluded) to have this navy and have the control. So for the years to come a country from the North American continant MOST probably USA will remain the only superpower in the world. All others can be only regoional powers including Russia , EU, China, Japan ...etc.


Now back to Armenia. After all that is said if we want to chose a stretigic parter the strongest is the most logical one. So USA must be our closest ally garantor we msut turn to USA and hand them over everything. In my opinion WRONG. The way Armenians in the Diaspora are today we can't go to USA WHY? USA is VERY far geographically but Russia is near. we are in the back yeard of Russia. Although much weaker than USA Russia is a regional power FOR NOW and Russia unmlike USA doens't afford to lose in caucasus and will do anything not to lose. so now China won't do us good nor USA nor EU coz EU needs someone to save it's ass EU isn't the power that used to be and we have seen how Europe has "HELPED" us in the past the only one who has landed a helping hand in the past is Russia and not becaus they love us but because it was their intrests then and will remain such. But unfortunately I have fear that Russia would fall in the near future and if that happens we are doomed. So we must think of something else .


Unlike other countries we have our oil fields and strategic weapons outside Armenia. We have some kind of influence on many coutries today but its not enough we need more and the reason why we don't have enoug influence its because we aren't orgenised and we are not exploiting all our potential it is time now to do so. HOW? we MUST introduce Natinal Tax from now on in every coutry we must find ways to collect these taxes and create oragnisations that would invest these taxes in the countries that tehy are collected from this will creat jobs to Armenians in those country and make the capital grow. Using this capital finence and support talented Armenians to infeltrate in local parties and reach to the top to influential positions have more and more Armenian representatives in the parliaments of many countries. After a while using this capital invest in Armenia's economy and help Armenia finentialy. establish a central body that would coordinate the work done in many countries. in the end in such a way we would have much more influence on influential countiries and the superpower and in this case maybe we can sacure Armenia's survival in case of a Russian fall and why not realise our bigest dreams.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

hmm, after all what you said Hye, i have come to the following conclusion: we should not stick to one superpower, bedk e poloren okdvink. Polorin menk "ayo" bidi esenk, yev bidi okdvink mer grtsadzin chap irentsme. Anshoushd asi varbedoutioun gouze, chem kider yete menk hayers aytkan varbed enk yergeres ellalou. Poloren okdvelov menk aveli ge zoranank.