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Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

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  • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

    19 September 2013
    Isis seizure of Syria's Azaz exposes rebel rifts

    By Paul Wood


    The Free Syrian Army is driven out of a town on the Turkish border. Several of their men are killed, perhaps as many as 100 captured. Inside the town, there are arrests of opposition activists and citizen-journalists. Members of the Sharia court are detained.

    It sounds like a description of a successful offensive by the regime. But the Free Syrian Army lost the town of Azaz to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or Isis, the most hardline group linked to al-Qaeda on the rebel side. As a measure of the grip the jihadis have in Azaz, one eyewitness inside the town said no-one was smoking on the streets - tobacco is forbidden according to strict Islamist doctrine.

    All of this started when a wounded fighter from Isis, or from an allied group, al-Muhajireen, was taken to the field clinic in Azaz. Doctors from a German charity have been working in the clinic for many months. The fighter was filmed by one of the German doctors, or by someone documenting their work in order to raise money back home.

    Map
    The wounded fighter demanded the film. He called some of his friends to come and help. FSA fighters, from a unit called the Northern Storm brigade, were guarding the field clinic. There was a confrontation. It's claimed that two Muhajireen fighters were killed (a Tunisian and a Libyan, according to tweets from activists in Azaz). In reply, the Isis "emir" of Azaz - that is the senior jihadi commander in the area, said to be a Kuwaiti - ordered an attack. The Northern Storm brigade were put to flight.

    Isis and al Muhajireen accused the man filming them - a doctor or his associate - of being journalists. That is a very dangerous accusation in Syria at the moment since the most extreme jihadi groups have taken a position that Western journalists are spies.

    The jihadis seem to believe that mooted US strikes against the Syrian regime would have been aimed at them and were only postponed because Islamist fighters had successfully dispersed and hidden in new locations. They believe that Western journalists are coming into Syria now to acquire new targeting information for drone and missile strikes against them.

    'Cowardly attacks'
    A new posting on a jihadist forum announced that "journalists are the enemy to the mujahideen in Syria and globally". Any Western journalists should be arrested and punished according to Sharia, the posting said.

    Azaz lies near a busy border crossing between Syria and Turkey.
    Azaz lies near a busy border crossing between Syria and Turkey
    The fighting over Azaz seems to have evolved, accidentally, out of this set of circumstances rather than having been part of a long-planned offensive. Still, there is a long record of skirmishing between the jihadis and FSA brigades for control of the border crossings into Turkey (along with all the lucrative income from smuggling and stealing from aid shipments).

    Tensions have been steadily escalating. A senior FSA commander was shot dead in an argument with an Isis emir in nearby Idlib in the summer. Last week, Isis issued a fatwa declaring operation Banishment of Hypocrisy against the FSA in al-Bab and in Aleppo, both not far from Azaz.

    Continue reading the main story

    Start Quote

    There is a long record of skirmishing between the jihadis and FSA brigades for control of the border crossings into Turkey”

    According to fliers handed out by Isis fighters, this would be an offensive targeting two FSA brigades accused of "cowardly attacks on the benevolent mujahideen". Fighting has also broken out between the FSA and Isis in another important town, Dayr az Zawr.

    Isis seems to be in control of Azaz for the moment, though Northern Storm and Liwaa al Tawheed, another FSA brigade, are massing outside. Turkish authorities have closed a nearby crossing from Syria. It will be interesting to see how Turkey reacts to the Islamic State's dominance just across its border.

    What does this mean for the Syrian revolution? In the long term, the United States and other Western governments might be more willing to support the Free Syrian Army if they see real distance between it and the jihadis. In the short term, if the rebels are fighting each other, they are not fighting the regime.

    Comment


    • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

      Originally posted by lampron View Post
      ......

      yes every nation has its own interests but they don't spend a vast amount of time debating who will be defending them!

      Every country debates issues that are current in its political life.
      That's part of democracy.

      The latest debate was not about who will defend us but which economic block we should align with.
      There was a strong debate about aligning with the EU.

      Many people overlooked the national security implications.
      In case you did not know Armenia has a longstanding security arrangements set in place.

      The debate you are referring to was not to undermine those arrangements.

      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

      Comment


      • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

        Russian ally-Azerbaijan challenges their monopoly in supplying gas to Europe. The two "superpowers" are increasingly engaged in fighting each others economic interests in EU. Let see who will be the winner. Given improved Iran-west relations Iran can join the project later on leaving Russia to cope with resulting disastrous economic situation, after that. I think Iran's future gas input is already, indirectly, included in that project, otherwise Shah Deniz field alone can't carry out its projected mission.

        This will result in increased respect towards Armenian statehood that Russia will be forced to demonstrate unwillingly, given expected severe confrontation with the West, Azeri and Iran.

        It is obvious that we'll support the West and Iran.


        BP strikes Azerbaijan gas sales deal
        UK oil company at centre of sales deal to produce 16bn cubic metres a year of offshore gas from the Shah Deniz field in the Caspian Sea

        UK oil company at centre of sales deal to produce 16bn cubic metres a year of offshore gas from the Shah Deniz field in the Caspian Sea


        The BP project will help with European energy security but also enhances the prestige and power of Azerbaijan. Photograph: Michael McKee / Alamy/Alamy
        BP is at the centre of one of the world's biggest gas sales agreements, worth up to $100bn (£62bn) over 25 years, after signing a deal to supply energy from a Caspian Sea project that could reduce Europe's reliance on Russian fossil fuels.

        Over 10bn cubic metres of gas a year will be produced via a $40bn scheme – the biggest ever undertaken by BP – to unlock new reserves from the huge Shah Deniz field located in the territorial waters of Azerbaijan. The nine buyers of gas from the BP-operated project include European energy groups Shell, E.ON and Enel.

        But the project will involve a massive new transport network of three new pipelines to move a total of 16bn cubic metres a year of offshore gas through Georgia, Greece and under the Adriatic Sea to Italy. One leading human rights campaigner argued last night that a campaign in Britain and elsewhere was growing to halt dependence on the Caspian "carbon corridor" that has brought disruption to populations that live along the route.

        The next phase of Shah Deniz is expected to be given the go-ahead before Christmas by BP, which operates the project and has a 25% stake in it alongside Statoil of Norway, which owns a further 25%.

        The project will bolster European gas security and reduce dependency on Russia but it also enhances the position of Azerbaijan, a country whose president, Ilham Aliyev, is accused by Amnesty International of presiding over a human rights "crisis". Al Cook, vice president of BP in Azerbaijan, said the deal – on the back of a summer deal with BOTAS of Turkey – was another "vital milestone" in developing the project.

        He added: "We are confident we can take a final investment decision at the end of the year for a scheme that will open up the southern corridor and bring gas direct to Europe for the first time from Azerbaijan." Asked whether the scheme could enhance the reputation of a controversial regime, Cook pointed out that the project was supported by the European Union and would only proceed as a "sound economic proposition".

        The first phase of the Shah Deniz project brought 8bn cubic metres of gas out of the Caspian Sea, which was sold to Azerbaijan as well as Georgia and Turkey. Shah Deniz 2 involves 16bn more going to Bulgaria, Greece, and Italy.

        The second phase will involve drilling 26 new wells at a cost of more than $5bn, 500km of subsea pipelines and 3,500km of onshore links including a Trans Adriatic Pipeline. BP and its partners, which includes the local Azerbaijan state-owned oil group, SOCAR, will also need to construct two new giant pumping stations in Georgia which will each be the size of 50 football pitches.

        Despite its 25% stake, BP said it would be wrong to assume that it would obtain a quarter of the expected $100bn worth of revenues. For instance, the British-based company, still recovering after the financial traumas triggered by the Deepwater Horizon accident in 2010, owns only 20% of the Trans Adriatic Pipeline which will be built alongside extensions to the South Caucusus link from the Caspian to Turkey and a third, the Trans-Anatolian Pipeline. The building of these corridors to Europe, especially an earlier one constructed by BP known as the Baku Tsibilisi Ceyhan pipeline, has attracted criticism from environmentalists and human rights organisations such as the Corner House and Platform.

        And this latest signing of the gas sales deal comes as Aliyev runs for a third consecutive term as the country's president after changing the constitution in 2009 to allow him to serve an unlimited number of years. Aliyev, who succeeded his father as president in 2003, is alleged by Amnesty to have "presided over a deepening human rights crisis" in the Caspian state.

        James Marriott of Platform and co-author of The Oil Road, a critical study of pipelines from the Caspian, said that the construction and operation of a Euro-Caspian "mega-pipeline" would disrupt thousands of villages from Azerbaijan to Italy.

        "For much of its length it would become a militarised zone. It has already silenced EU criticism of Azeri human rights abuse and led to plans for election monitoring to be shelved. But there are many who recognise that our energy needs should not be met through projects that increase the insecurity of other peoples lives and threaten a myriad of environments. Opposition to this scheme is growing in the UK and across Europe."
        Last edited by gegev; 09-20-2013, 11:16 PM.

        Comment


        • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

          Originally posted by Vrej1915 View Post
          19 September 2013
          Isis seizure of Syria's Azaz exposes rebel rifts

          By Paul Wood


          The Free Syrian Army is driven out of a town on the Turkish border. Several of their men are killed, perhaps as many as 100 captured. Inside the town, there are arrests of opposition activists and citizen-journalists. Members of the Sharia court are detained.

          It sounds like a description of a successful offensive by the regime. But the Free Syrian Army lost the town of Azaz to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or Isis, the most hardline group linked to al-Qaeda on the rebel side. As a measure of the grip the jihadis have in Azaz, one eyewitness inside the town said no-one was smoking on the streets - tobacco is forbidden according to strict Islamist doctrine.

          All of this started when a wounded fighter from Isis, or from an allied group, al-Muhajireen, was taken to the field clinic in Azaz. Doctors from a German charity have been working in the clinic for many months. The fighter was filmed by one of the German doctors, or by someone documenting their work in order to raise money back home.

          Map
          The wounded fighter demanded the film. He called some of his friends to come and help. FSA fighters, from a unit called the Northern Storm brigade, were guarding the field clinic. There was a confrontation. It's claimed that two Muhajireen fighters were killed (a Tunisian and a Libyan, according to tweets from activists in Azaz). In reply, the Isis "emir" of Azaz - that is the senior jihadi commander in the area, said to be a Kuwaiti - ordered an attack. The Northern Storm brigade were put to flight.

          Isis and al Muhajireen accused the man filming them - a doctor or his associate - of being journalists. That is a very dangerous accusation in Syria at the moment since the most extreme jihadi groups have taken a position that Western journalists are spies.

          The jihadis seem to believe that mooted US strikes against the Syrian regime would have been aimed at them and were only postponed because Islamist fighters had successfully dispersed and hidden in new locations. They believe that Western journalists are coming into Syria now to acquire new targeting information for drone and missile strikes against them.

          'Cowardly attacks'
          A new posting on a jihadist forum announced that "journalists are the enemy to the mujahideen in Syria and globally". Any Western journalists should be arrested and punished according to Sharia, the posting said.

          Azaz lies near a busy border crossing between Syria and Turkey.
          Azaz lies near a busy border crossing between Syria and Turkey
          The fighting over Azaz seems to have evolved, accidentally, out of this set of circumstances rather than having been part of a long-planned offensive. Still, there is a long record of skirmishing between the jihadis and FSA brigades for control of the border crossings into Turkey (along with all the lucrative income from smuggling and stealing from aid shipments).

          Tensions have been steadily escalating. A senior FSA commander was shot dead in an argument with an Isis emir in nearby Idlib in the summer. Last week, Isis issued a fatwa declaring operation Banishment of Hypocrisy against the FSA in al-Bab and in Aleppo, both not far from Azaz.

          Continue reading the main story

          Start Quote

          There is a long record of skirmishing between the jihadis and FSA brigades for control of the border crossings into Turkey”

          According to fliers handed out by Isis fighters, this would be an offensive targeting two FSA brigades accused of "cowardly attacks on the benevolent mujahideen". Fighting has also broken out between the FSA and Isis in another important town, Dayr az Zawr.

          Isis seems to be in control of Azaz for the moment, though Northern Storm and Liwaa al Tawheed, another FSA brigade, are massing outside. Turkish authorities have closed a nearby crossing from Syria. It will be interesting to see how Turkey reacts to the Islamic State's dominance just across its border.

          What does this mean for the Syrian revolution? In the long term, the United States and other Western governments might be more willing to support the Free Syrian Army if they see real distance between it and the jihadis. In the short term, if the rebels are fighting each other, they are not fighting the regime.
          Other news reports suggest that "Northern Storm brigade" is an extremist jihadist group by anyone's (except maybe isis's) standards, and it is actually a dispute about who controls the border and who gets their cut of the "foreign aid" (i.e. weapons) crossing that border. And I've seen more exact translation of "Operation Banishment of Hypocrisy" as "Operation Banishment of Degenerate Filth" the "degenerate filth" pesumably being whoever believes anything different than the "emirs" of isis do.

          And once again I'll say that I think anyone who copypastes news reports without giving the source of the report should be given a temporary ban.
          Plenipotentiary meow!

          Comment


          • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

            Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
            ........ should be given a temporary ban.
            You sound a bit like the hyeclub emir ... what next ... chopping heads off !!!


            By the way I agree regarding source of the reports.

            So much misinformation on the internet.

            .
            Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
            Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
            Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

            Comment


            • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

              Originally posted by londontsi View Post
              By the way I agree regarding source of the reports.

              So much misinformation on the internet.

              .
              Especially if it is from the BBC (which is from where that report seems to be from).
              Plenipotentiary meow!

              Comment


              • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

                Կուշտ գայլերի և ողջ մնացած ոչխարների համատեղելիության խնդիրը
                18 Սեպտեմբերի 2013 - 18:33

                Նույն կամ գրեթե նույն իրավիճակն է նաև Ղարաբաղյան հակամարտության դեպքում:
                Եվրամիությունը, որը հակամարտության խաղաղ կարգավորման գործում ներգրավված է ի դեմս Ֆրանսիայի, բավական անհույս վիճակում է, և դրա պատճառները մեկ նախադասությամբ նկարագրել հնարավոր չէ: Ֆրանսիան, որը պատմականորեն ներկայացված է եղել ու բավական ուժեղ դիրքեր է ունեցել Առաջավոր Ասիայում (իսկ Հայաստանը գտվում է հենց այդ տարածաշրջանում և ո՛չ «Անդրկովկասի», ո՛չ էլ «Հարավային Կովկասի» հետ ընդհանուր ոչինչ չունի՝ հատկապես, որ այդ բնորոշումներից ցանկացածն արհեստածին է ի սկզբանե), այժմ բավական թուլացած է՝ կապված, հիմնականում, ներքին խնդիրների հետ: Միտերանի և Շիրակի հետևորդ համարվող, սոցիալիստ Ֆրանսուա Օլանդը Ֆրանսիայի պատմության մեջ (կամ գոնե վերջին շրջանում) ամենացածր ժողովրդականություն վայելող գործող նախագահն է և դա կապված է նրա վարած ներքին քաղաքականության հետ: Օլանդը սոցիալիզմը ձևախողեց՝ սոցիալիզմի գաղափարները հասցնելով կոմունիզմի աստիճանի և, արդյունքում, նախկինում ԵՄ-ի շոգեքարշերից մեկը հանդիսացող, իսկ այժմ անհավանականորեն թուլացած, աղքատացած և կամազրկված Ֆրանսիան հայտնվել է ԱՄՆ-ի «գրպանի շնիկի» կարգավիճակում և, որպես հետևանք, վերածվել է սոսկական կամակատարի:

                Սա, իհարկե, լրջագույն խնդիր է Բրյուսելի համար, որը, օգտագործելով Ղարաբաղյան հակամարտության խաղաղ կարգավորման գործընթացը, փորձել ու փորձելու է իր համար տեղ ապահովել մեր տարածաշրջանում: Մյուս կողմից, սակայն, նույնիսկ անզեն աչքով է տեսանելի, որ ԵՄ-ն չունի ազդեցության այն իրական լծակները, որոնց միջոցով հակամարտող երեք կողմին հնարավոր կլինի բերել ընդհանուր հայտարարի: Եվ հենց սա է պատճառը, որ ԵՄ-ն ամեն կերպ խուսափում է ԵԱՀԿ Մինսկի խմբում Փարիզը Բրյուսելով փոխարինելու բոլոր առաջարկներից, քանի որ, ճիշտ է, մի կողմից գործող ձևաչափում հաջողությունը հնարավոր կլինի վերագրել այդ թվում եվրոպական ընտանիքի ջանքերին, բայց, մյուս կողմից, նույն տրամաբանությամբ, անհաջողության համար ԵՄ-ից միակ պատասխանատուն կդառնա ֆրանսիական դիվանագիտությունը: Կարճ ասած՝ խնդիրը վերաբերում է կուշտ գայլերի և ողջ մնացած ոչխարների համատեղելիությանը: Հետևաբար, կարելի է գրեթե հարյուր տոկոսանոց վստահությամբ պնդել, որ Եվրոպան, նույնիսկ իրադարձությունների սարսափելիագույն զարգացման դեպքում, ոչ մի կերպ ֆիզիկական մասնակցություն չի ունենալու՝ պնդելով, որ դա դեմ է իր արժեհամակարգին և սահմանափակվելու է որևէ տեսակի ազդեցություն չունեցող կոչեր ու կարգախոսներ հնչեցնելով:

                Ինչ վերաբերում է ԱՄՆ-ին, ապա, գոնե այս պարագայում, այս գերտերությանը պետք է խաղից դուրս հայտարարել այն պարզ պատճառով, որ Ռուսաստան-ԵՄ ընտրության դեպքում այս երկիրը, գոնե ֆորմալ առումով ներկայացված չէ: Եթե խոսելու լինենք ԱՄՆ-ի՝ Ղարաբաղյան հակամարտության վրա ունեցած ազդեցության մասին, ապա այն կարելի է շարադրել որպես «շահագրգիռ չեզոքություն» քաղաքագիտական առայժմ գոյություն չունեցող ձևակերպամբ և Հայաստանի «եվրոպամետ» քաղաքական ուղեգծի անհրաժեշտության ապացուցման ամբողջ ծանրությունը թողնել սույն գծի կողմնակիցների ուսերին: Սա, ի դեպ, բավական բարդ խնդիր է, քանի որ վերը նշված քաղաքական ուղեգծի կողմնակիցները ստիպված են լինելու նաև հիմնավորել, թե ինչու՞ կամ ինչպե՞ս է ստացվում, որ ամերիկյան հետաքրքրությունների կենտրոնում հայտնված բոլոր երկրներում ու տարածաշրջաններում առ այսօր «խաղաղություն» բառն օգտագործում որպես աղոթքի հիմնական լեյթմոտիվ:
                (Շարունակելի)

                Լևոն Սարդարյան

                Comment


                • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

                  Այնպես չէ, որ ՌԴ-ն ՀՀ-ին «անվճար ծառայություններ է մատուցում»
                  19 Սեպտեմբերի 2013 - 14:16

                  Պաշտպանության նախարար Սեյրան Օհանյանը ուսանողների հետ հանդիպման ժամանակ հայտարարեց, որ «առանց Ռուսաստանի Հայաստանի համար դժվար կլինի ապահովել իր անվտանգությունը, երբ մենք ունենք Ադրբեջանի և Թուրքիայի նման հարևաններ, երբ Ադրբեջանն իր սպառազինությունն ավելի ու ավելի հարձակողական է դարձնում»:
                  Մյուս կողմից, հասարակությունը մտահոգություն ունի այն հարցում, որ Ադրբեջանին զենք մատակարարող Ռուսաստանը չի կարող անվտանգության տեսնակյունից լուրջ հենարան լինել Հայաստանի համար:
                  Սակայն այսօր որպես փաստ ունենք մի փաստաթուղթ, երբ ՌԴ-ն Հայաստանի ու Ռուսաստանի միջև կնքված պայմանգրի համաձայն՝ պարտավորվում է ապահովել Հայաստանի անվտանգությունը ոչ միայն հայ-թուրքական և հայ-իրանական սահմանին, այլև առավել մեծ սպառնալիք ներկայացնող հայ-ադրբեջանական ճակատում:
                  Իսկապես մտահոգիչ է, որ Ադրբեջանը նման ծավալների գնումներ է կատարում ՌԴ-ից, սակայն առավել մտահոգիչ է այն, որ Ադրբեջանը ռազմական ծախսերի համար նման մեծ գումարներ է նախատեսում, ևնույնիսկ Ռուսաստանի կողմից էմբարգոյի կիրառման դեպքում` Ադրբեջանին այլ աղբյուրներից գնումներ կատարելու հնարավորություն կընձեռվի:
                  Վերջին շրջանում «անվտանգության բաղադրիչ, անվտանգության գործոն» հասկացությունները դիտարկվում են ոչ միայն ՌԴ-ի կողմից Ադրբեջանին սպառազինության վաճառքի, այլև` Հայաստան-Մաքսային միություն համատեքստում, ինչը առիթ է տալիս ևս մեկ անգամ հետ նայելու ու փորձելու պատասխանել հետևյալ հարցադրմանը. «Արդյոք Հայաստանը անվտանգության առումով այլ ընտրություն ունի՞ (կամ ուներ) և արդյոք ՀՀ Զինված ուժերը, շրջափակման պայմաններում, Թուրքիայի և Ադրբեջանի հետ լարված հարաբերությունների ֆոնին, ի վիճակի՞ են լիարժեքորեն ապահովել հայ-թուրքական և հայ-ադրբեջանական սահմանների անվտանգությունը»:

                  Պետք է խոստովանել, որ անվտանգության առումով, այլընտրանք այս պահին Հայաստանը չունի. ո՛չ ԵՄ-ն, ո՛չ ԱՄՆ-ն և ո՛չ էլ մեկ այլ աշխարհաքաղաքական կենտրոն Հայաստանին, անվտանգության առումով այլընտրանք չի առաջարկել: Իսկ սա նշանակում է, որ Հայաստանը ոչ միայն ընտրության հնարավորություն չունի, այլև պետք է անընդհատ խորացնի իր հարաբերությունները ՀԱՊԿ-ի ու ՌԴ-ի հետ:

                  Մեկ դիտարկում ևս. պետք չէ վերլուծություններն ու գնահատականները ներկայացնել բացառապես Հայաստանի հետաքրքրությունների ու շահերի համատեքստում: ՌԴ-ն ևս ընդգծված շահեր ունի Հարավային Կովկասում և մասնավորապես Հայաստանում: Հայաստան-Ռուսաստան փոխհարաբերությունների հիմքում երկուստեք շահերն են և դրանք մեկը մեկին իրենց կարևորությամբ չեն զիջում: Եվ այնպես չէ, որ Ռուսաստանը Հայաստանի համար «անվճար ծառայություններ է մատուցում»: Ռուսաստանի ներկայությունը Հայաստանում բխում է իր իսկ շահերից և նա ևս ամեն ինչ անելու է այդ կապերի առավել ամրապնդման համար:

                  Փորձագետ Տիգրան Աբրահամյան

                  Comment


                  • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

                    We'll see big changes if US Iran relations begin to thaw.
                    Last edited by Hakob; 09-20-2013, 08:44 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

                      Originally posted by lampron View Post
                      it would be foolish to even to begin to compare Armenia with Belgium or Holland!

                      the reason it is necessary to stress that the present problems are the result of past and present blunders is because Armenians like to spend nearly all their time (as we have seen in this thread) blaming outsiders

                      the mentality of the slave becomes evident when a nation is arguing as to which foreign country will protect its interests, which implies that such a nation has no faith in itself

                      are the French arguing as to which foreign country will defend French interests? are the Belgians?

                      With Armenians and their politicians (assuming professional politicians do exist, and not wheeler-dealers who occasionally like to wrap themselves up in the Armenian flag) as well as Armenian 'intellectuals' and bishops/priests, it is obvious they have better things to do than defending Armenia -- like shish kebab eating

                      This is flat and uninformed shallow opinion about history of armenians. About people, who stuck to land that was swept by most powerfull forces too many times in millenia and still suvived, while many other nations stopped existing.
                      Whatever our politicians think and do is te reason why we survived when we should have vanished long long time ago.

                      Comment

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