Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Yes and no... I think every great man needs to leave behind a legacy, and if there is greatness from within then it would be a shame not to reproduce. Just like how it's a shame that many attractive women can be successful and feel too independent for marriage and children. The world is just going to get ugly.

True. But it doesn't take much for a man to leave a legacy. There are a bunch of hoods with several kids running around. I say become great, then worry about the legacy. It's too easy to accept failures in life and hope one's children will be better. Why not be better yourself. One should at least do the hard work first before he clouds his judgment with children. Men with children will take far fewer risks than those without.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Well, women were never forced to take arms to protect the interests of the wealthy. It's a matter of what's more important, life with less freedoms or death with more responsibilities.

I am not convinced. I feel like here you're doing what you complain about.

Well, if privilege can be awarded due to biological differences, can freedoms be taken way for the same reason?

Can you please give some examples of these freedoms? Thanks.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

I am not convinced. I feel like here you're doing what you complain about.

Perhaps, but this is how it unfolds. Society expected men to be protectors and providers in return for being treated the way you described as "extremism." On the other hand, by painting women as the weaker sex, society exempted them from dangerous occupations, but also expected them to do the tasks you complained about.
So, men had more "freedoms" at the cost of dying several years earlier (or if they wen to war, much earlier) than women. And women, by giving up some freedoms gained few years of life. => Early death with more responsibilities, or longer life with less freedoms. Of course, these are perceived freedoms. It's much easier to wash someone's feet than say work in a mine. It's also easier to stay home than go to war.

Just pointing out that just because women were expected to do these things, doesn't mean their situation was any worse than their husbands.

Can you please give some examples of these freedoms? Thanks.

I'll demonstrate with an example. If a woman's husband protects and pampers her because he thinks she is biologically different than he is, can he also expect her to eat dinner in a different room when his friends are visiting, because he feels that because of her biological differences she will cause trouble at the dinner table?

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Levon, please comment on this.

What guy hits a girl. Equality at it's best. If she wants to play with the big boys, she shouldn't complain when she gets clobbered.

[gkv]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

can he also expect her to eat dinner in a different room when his friends are visiting, because he feels that because of her biological differences she will cause trouble at the dinner table?

what you are essentially saying here is that your friends are not gentlemen and/or you would not trust your wife. but then this betrays weakness/insecurity more than anything else. and lack of love too for love goes hand in hand with trust.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

what you are essentially saying here is that your friends are not gentlemen and/or you would not trust your wife. but then this betrays weakness/insecurity more than anything else. and lack of love too for love goes hand in hand with trust.

Sorry, love and trust don't go hand in hand. Only an idiot trusts out of love. Trust is earned, love is given.

Also, I think you need to look at your life and find the reason why you value being a gentleman so much i.e. why you tie yourself to how women would perceive you: gentleman or not.

[gkv]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

surely you can give your love to someone you do not trust
but if you love someone truly you should give your trust too.
i do not tie myself to other people's perception.
this is my own.
when i say "gentleman" i mean a man with a sense of honor/dignity.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

surely you can give your love to someone you do not trust
but if you love someone truly you should give your trust too.

Nop, one may truly love a fool, but only a fool would trust a fool.
Trust is earned. No matter how truly you love, trust should never be given.

i do not tie myself to other people's perception.
this is my own.
when i say "gentleman" i mean a man with a sense of honor/dignity.

So what do you define as honor/dignity? Surely you don't include anything specific to women in your definition?

[gkv]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

you never know one other person.
so the whole idea of earning trust is flawed.
it is somewhat valid in other contexts for different types of relationships (work...)
in the case of marriage, trust is not earned. it is given but then it can be lost.

i am not going to teach you dignity. this should know from your forefathers.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Sorry, love and trust don't go hand in hand. Only an idiot trusts out of love. Trust is earned, love is given.

Also, I think you need to look at your life and find the reason why you value being a gentleman so much i.e. why you tie yourself to how women would perceive you: gentleman or not.

How can you love someone you don't trust? If I'm not mistaken you're being a realist, the kind of person who is not stuck in the moment and leaves a little window open for the 'ifs', right?

Perhaps, but this is how it unfolds. Society expected men to be protectors and providers in return for being treated the way you described as "extremism."

Why should they be treated in those particular ways? Aren't there other methods/things we can do?

On the other hand, by painting women as the weaker sex, society exempted them from dangerous occupations, but also expected them to do the tasks you complained about.

'Weaker' in what sense? The dangerous occupations cannot be handled properly by most women not because the society exempted them but due to their special physical, psychological or/and biological structure. On the other hand, there are occupations women can do better than men.

I'll demonstrate with an example. If a woman's husband protects and pampers her because he thinks she is biologically different than he is, can he also expect her to eat dinner in a different room when his friends are visiting, because he feels that because of her biological differences she will cause trouble at the dinner table?

Vaaay Levon, can you give some real-life examples please? Do you know women who cause trouble at the dinner table?